Steam workshop?

[gregs4163]

Any idea if X Rebirth will utilize the Steam workshop for mods like Arma 3 is? That would be nice, what do you guys think?

[bufi]

Steam workshop is a good idea. Will be nice to see this feature in X Rebirth.
Best mods, and scripts in one place. With actually versions, comments, screens, etc.

I vote 'yes'

P.

[giskard]

Workshops been adding games so fast modders cannot even connect to it right now. I spent most of last week trying to upload mods without success.

[Texhnolyzed]

Considering that X Rebirth is a Steamworks game, I'd be surprised if they didn't take advantage of the Steam Workshop as well.

[giskard]

Me too, but steam need to put some serious investment in to steam workshop for it work. Currently its off line more than its online.

The other thing is every time steam update their user agreement, they take the mods off line until the modder agrees. If a modder stops playing a game and tracking his mods, the first update to that agreement basically makes his mods vanish without a trace and Steam do not make any attempt to contact the user via email or otherwise either. He has to check his files to see the message and if he is not playing that game, he is unlikely to do that.

So steam workshop is a tempory solution for modders at best and one with way too many limitations.

BTW I am supporter of Workshop.... so that is not an anti steam guy telling you that.

[leecarter]

Hate to bump an old thread, but I can't find any update on this. Has there been any announcement about using Steam Workshop with X:R yet?

[CBJ]

This has been answered a couple of times at least, most recently here.

[Teleth]

Thread is a bit dated but I have a comment about this:

Steam workshop integration is not always particularly grand.
It has a number of limitations with file manipulation and if X3's structure is any measure of what X:Rebirths structure will be like, it won't make modding any easier due to complexity of the system.
Not to say it won't be useful, just that it's not likely to be any with even remotely complicated mod setups like in X3.

[Alci]

if X3's structure is any measure of what X:Rebirths structure will be like

would not bet on this. They've said X was made before any Steam existed. And doing X:R now means they are aware how it works and made it the way it fits together.

[thrangar]

Me too, but steam need to put some serious investment in to steam workshop for it work. Currently its off line more than its online.

The other thing is every time steam update their user agreement, they take the mods off line until the modder agrees. If a modder stops playing a game and tracking his mods, the first update to that agreement basically makes his mods vanish without a trace and Steam do not make any attempt to contact the user via email or otherwise either. He has to check his files to see the message and if he is not playing that game, he is unlikely to do that.

So steam workshop is a tempory solution for modders at best and one with way too many limitations.

BTW I am supporter of Workshop.... so that is not an anti steam guy telling you that.

well maybe that is my problem, I've subscribed to several mods this week, but I can not get them to show up in my games.

[Teleth]

if X3's structure is any measure of what X:Rebirths structure will be like

would not bet on this. They've said X was made before any Steam existed. And doing X:R now means they are aware how it works and made it the way it fits together.

More likely they're still using the same system of their base code given they are using XML, MD and DirectX9 again.
The mod system for X3 worked well, I can't see why the structure of it would change drastically. If they changed to a user-directory mod format (which they should have.. for real win7+ support), it still won't change the overriding nature of the system.

Steam workshop rarely does much for any multiple-mod systems that rely on override orders like the ship and wares list in X3.

Some good examples of games with steam workshop problems:
Skyrim
Arma
Torchlight 2
Shogun 2

Some of these systems work better than others, most require external methods to merge them. Steam workshop also has restrictions on what you can do with it.

Companies very rarely re-write engines from the ground up when they have an existing one. It's not cost effective.

Quake -> Half-life -> Half-life 2
Morrowind -> Oblivion -> Skyrim

Three guesses as to what developers said when they were making these games. A new engine..
The possibility exists they wrote a completely new one.. but then why would they use MD in favor of a superior script system like Lua.

[Alci]

but that's the point of Rebirth, right? To rewrite it after 14 years.

You can never solve problems automatically when two mods are rewriting same resource. If one changes textures to black and the other to blue... And workshop supports some "incompatibility with.." mechanics. Not ideal, but working for me at least.

But X3 has major flaw in that it is not supposed to have multiple mods. They act as patches to the game. Thus, higher number wins. X:R has to support mods side by side. It still needs to solve conflicts. But you don't need to care about downloading/managing/updating/discussions at least. And it have "working together packages". Which allows to create separate mods in case only one part conflicts with something else.

They are usually put into game directory (another advantage). As Steam manages them and Steam has right to write there already while game just reads them.

P.S. Half-Life is the first in line (Source). It's nothing related with Quake (ID Soft).

[Teleth]

but that's the point of Rebirth, right? To rewrite it after 14 years.

So they have said. But I believe it's more of a re-write of the AI, UI and gameplay systems.

You can never solve problems automatically when two mods are rewriting same resource. If one changes textures to black and the other to blue... And workshop supports some "incompatibility with.." mechanics. Not ideal, but working for me at least.

You can automatically solve them with tools like BOSS and wyrebash for Skyrim, but there are limits to this. Point was that steam workshop won't be able to do any of this for X and that's why I warned people about it, nothing more.

But X3 has major flaw in that it is not supposed to have multiple mods. They act as patches to the game. Thus, higher number wins. X:R has to support mods side by side. It still needs to solve conflicts. But you don't need to care about downloading/managing/updating/discussions at least. And it have "working together packages". Which allows to create separate mods in case only one part conflicts with something else.

If you are overwriting sections of the game in a non-modular fashion, then it will always have conflicts. I'm skeptical X:R will have a system as advanced as bethesda had devised.

P.S. Half-Life is the first in line (Source). It's nothing related with Quake (ID Soft).

Half-life is based on the quake 1 source code.. I wouldn't have said it otherwise.

[A5PECT]

My experience with Steam Workshop with Skyrim is that it's a good idea for "low-intensity" mods that are simple content additions/alterations. But if you start going for crazy, elaborate back-end scripting and major overhauls (like redoing the entire layouts of every town in the game), you're better off utilizing other third-party tools and manually correcting conflicts yourself.

[CBJ]

Just to re-iterate what I've said in previous discussions on this topic, mod support in XR is very different to, and hopefully much better than, previous X series games.

While it's still possible for mods to conflict with one another, if for example they both replace the same asset, it is much easier to ensure that they don't conflict in other cases. As an example, it's perfectly possible in XR for two mods to add entries to the database of wares available for trading without the two coming into conflict (unless they have chosen the same unique identifiers for their wares) even though the core game's data is stored in a single file.

It's also a lot easier to manage mods, with mods being able to provide metadata, leaving a signature in a savegame so that people know they need that mod installed to load it, and so on.

[A5PECT]

That's great news; sounds very similar to how Bethesda has collated game entities in Oblivion/FO3/Skyrim.

[Teleth]

Just to re-iterate what I've said in previous discussions on this topic, mod support in XR is very different to, and hopefully much better than, previous X series games.

While it's still possible for mods to conflict with one another, if for example they both replace the same asset, it is much easier to ensure that they don't conflict in other cases. As an example, it's perfectly possible in XR for two mods to add entries to the database of wares available for trading without the two coming into conflict (unless they have chosen the same unique identifiers for their wares) even though the core game's data is stored in a single file.

It's also a lot easier to manage mods, with mods being able to provide metadata, leaving a signature in a savegame so that people know they need that mod installed to load it, and so on.

Sounds very similar to how it is setup in Skyrim.. looking forward to loading up my install endlessly!