Final thoughts on Rebirth and my 5 stages of grief..

[loxen]

I was going to post this in reply to another thread but as it grew I thought I would just put it up as my closing thoughts on X-rebirth. I stopped playing the game when the trading was broken for a week or two there and after having to edit save games, download mods, edit XML files, and more just to get the game to work on a basic level, have since decided this is not the X game for me.

Playing a game should not be chore. It should be enjoyed..

I really hope the people that enjoy the game continue to do so and really really really hope Ego has learned a lesson from this..

Best wishes to all..

--------The loooong post----------

The thing that kills me is the game was built around a Xbox controller. I mean the fundamental game play mechanics were not decided on based on the end user experience.

It is clear to me, at least, the game development was based on what can function with a 360 "type" controller as the primary input device.

His excuse of "This is not X4" as the underlying explanation of why this game is so naked in terms of player control Just does not hold water.

I have a saying "Don't piss on me and tell me it raining"

All bugs aside, the game launched with function that work on a controller and nothing more.

Who makes a space SIM and does include basic user controlled targeting?
Who makes a space SIM and does not include a 3d Based map/radar?(I.e X3)
Who makes a space SIM and does not support a Flight Stick?!?

All thought removed from combat in terms of weapons. No more damage type.

All thought removed from fleet management.
No way to rename ships
Lost 90% control of player owned factory.
Lost freedom of where to build.
No form of autopilot( for some reason I have a co pilot that does NOTHING!)
No form of view control in a space SIM
No way to cancel trade orders(on release)
No way to dump cargo
Cant buy Med and Small ships

The list can go on and on..

The option in the game are basic because they wanted a controller based game. Remove the keyboard commands=easy to understand game play right? And that is what they would have you believe as the reason for the reboot. They had added and added things in X3 to the point where "new" players had a bad game starting experience. The thought of a "Space" Combat/Build/Fleet Management/Trade type game that could use every key on a keyboard is bad/clunky/unintuitive/ and therefor removed.

The way I see it is you have 2 types of people. People like me, that love a hardcore SIM experience. And the people that, forced to learn more then W.A.S.D, will quit in rage.

I have NO idea how this game could EVER make it past beta and not have 100% of X players that were testing say "Umm hey how about flight stick control" Or "Hey, how about some targeting options"

I have NO idea how this game could EVER make it past beta seeing as how 100% of the people that played on launch could NOT finish the plot. You telling me this was played trough by more 10 people in beta that could finish the plot 100% but then for some reason the game broke on launch day?

The answer is no. Which leads the fact that Ego new the state of the game but released it anyways.

The way I see a beta working is having a HUGE list of bugs gathered over the 7 years of development. Then patching while adding new bugs that crop up. When the list is down to 0, or just a few minor non game breaking bugs that can be patched on launch or shortly thereafter, the game is launched.


Is closing I just wanna say I have gone through the 5 stages of grief.

1. Denial-This cant be the new X game!! Where are all the options?

2. Anger- How could they release this game is such a broken state Grrr!!

3. Bargaining- Ok the modders will fix it OR I can edit my XML files!

4. Depression- This sucks..*sigh* I just wanna play a non broken game..

5. Acceptance -You were not lying when you said "this is not X4"

I get that now..
This is 360 controlled SIM lite..


The "half glass full" people will say "Hey look at how committed they are at fixing the game"

Me being a "Half glass empty" guy says "How could they release a game in such a state"

And just to see how empty the glass is and how far from this game is from being released after 7 years.. I gave you the fixed bug list..

• Added error message boxes at game start for certain critical errors.
• Fixed crash at start-up involving sample frequency.
• Fixed several in-game crashes.
• Fixed German voice recordings including missing and incorrect lines.
• Fixed player occasionally being sent 1000s of km into space on leaving superhighway.
• Fixed some invalid (but harmless) values in some savegames.
• Fixed some causes of ship traders getting stuck (more to come on this).
• Fixed crash when starting game caused by attached joystick.
• Fixed several causes of crashes in-game.
• Fixed boarding failure feedback.
• Fixed problem with gate not activating.
• Fixed UI issues with buttons being active where they shouldn't.
• Fixed ware categories not being expanded in trade offers.
• Fixed problem with secondary weapon panel not being visible sometimes.
• Fixed problem with player engineers on board capital ships and stations.
• Fixed issues with ship traders not accepting orders.
• Fixed a number of crashes during start-up and in-game.
• Fixed crash when docking at certain capital ships.
• Fixed a problem with missing flight control data in savegames.
• Fixed a stall when loading savegames.
• Fixed characters crouching when you talk to them.
• Fixed ships still following you when you remove them from your squad.
• Removed "Show me your skills" option for NPCs that cannot be hired.
• Increased voice volume in videos.
• Added feedback to indicate when you cannot hire someone because your crew is full (note: Yisha tells you, but there is currently no voice, only subtitles).
• Added data to try to help nVidia Optimus software select the correct GPU.
• Added fallback to show subtitles if the voice for a text line is missing, even if subtitles are off.
• Added Simplified Chinese and Traditional Chinese localisations.
• Fixed video stutter/crackle at start.
• Fixed several more crashes during start-up and in-game.
• Fixed specific crash when using Alt-Tab or changing shaders.
• Fixed specific crash when leaving a highway.
• Fixed several problems with trade ships being blocked from operating (more fixes to come).
• Fixed problem with not being able to see dock icons for certain ships.
• Fixed problem with certain missions potentially not working after saving and reloading.
• Added autosave facility.
• Added button to clear trade queue.
• Fixed crash after displaying fatal error dialog.
• Fixed stall loading certain savegames.
• Fixed target point list growing uncontrollably in certain situations.
• Fixed problem with ships not joining formations.
• Fixed ships getting stuck during mass traffic trades.
• Fixed several problems with ship scripts.
• Fixed lipsync on Split characters.
• Fixed dialog choices shown in wrong language when loading savegame from another language.
• Fixed the primary cause of highway exit crashes. Fix for a less common crash involving highways will follow as soon as possible.
• Hotfix: Fixed second cause of highway crashes.
• Fixed several causes of crashes in-game and when loading savegames.
• Fixed a specific problem resulting in periodic slow-downs.
• Improved general performance (first small improvement only, more to come).
• Fixed several problems resulting in trade ships getting stuck.
• Fixed several problems with ship/drone docking/undocking behaviour.
• Fixed problem with player drone formations.
• Fixed several small localisation issues.
• Improved skill levels for new NPCs.
• Improved readability of entries in interaction menus.
• Improved GPU listing on laptops with multiple GPUs (still some driver-related issues on certain hardware).
• Fixed major slowdown after loading savegames.
• Fixed several more causes of crashes.
• Fixed more cases of trade ships getting stuck.
• Fixed large ships being unable to trade with Canteran station in DeVries.
• Fixed undocking problems after trading.
• Fixed ammunition trade problems.
• Fixed mining drones getting stuck.
• Fixed negative number of drones in cargo.
• Fixed cargo bays containing more wares than they can hold.
• Fixed cockpit animations hanging (see note below).
• Fixed problem with targeting player-owned ships.
• Fixed incorrect player position during highway flight.
• Fixed player owned ships being assigned the wrong commander.
• Fixed ships with missing AI functionality.
• Fixed problems with Engineer functionality.
• Improved flight behaviour for boarding and claiming.
• Improved combat behaviour for capital ships.
• Fixed station defence problems.
• Fixed incorrect defence routines being used on ships.
• Fixed switching the AI mode of the Defence Officer.
• Added defend and attack mode options to Defence Officer.
• Rebalanced skills of existing NPCs in line with new ones.
• Rebalanced contents of boxes and other containers on platforms.
• Rebalanced cost of ship and station repair.
• Fixed transport passenger mission getting blocked after cutscene.
• Fixed sounds not stopping sometimes.
• Fixed buttons not working with mouse input.
• Added facility to unmap controls in control mapping menu (press Delete).
• Added video capture mode with ability to switch off cockpit (Expert settings).
• Fixed too many missing extensions breaking the load game menu.
• Several localisation improvements.
• Fixed several more causes of crashes and freezes.
• Fixed mouse controls not working after loading certain savegames.
• Fixed trade ships getting stuck after upgrade.
• Fixed skipping trade menu when going back to it.
• Fixed graphics options not setting correct shaders.
• Fixed missing build notifications from architects in other sectors.
• Fixed player trade ships trying to trade with enemy stations.
• Fixed menus showing out of date info about build progress.
• Fixed trades in another sector taking too long.
• Fixed upkeep mission to deliver architect to builder ship not ending.
• Fixed player ships not being returned during plot missions (will not re-create ships already lost, sorry).
• Improved ship movement in certain situations.
• Improved logic for station owned miners.
• Cell Recharge (fuel) stations in Omicron Lyrae now require Bofu instead of Food Rations.
• Various performance improvements (should be most noticeable when shadows are NOT enabled).
• Added new Refuel order.
• Fixed more causes of crashes.
• Fixed another case where the player could be teleported into the middle of nowhere.
• Fixed problem with NPCs being assigned to multiple locations.
• Fixed scan overlay not being removed when docking.
• Fixed capital ships standing still forever with the boost effect running.
• Fixed trade menu problem (in German only) when trying to sell and the ship doesn't have the requested ware.

[piiman]

"I get that now..
This is 360 controlled SIM lite.. "

NOPE its a BROKEN 360 controlled un-SIM lite.

[TDQuasar]

Not to mention that some of those "fixes" don't work, so they are not really fixes. Like the ones regarding station building.

I'm going to stop playing now too, at least for awhile. We will see what will happen during the next few months.

[nefas]

All i will say on this is a lot of games have 360 controller support and some of them are not on xbox but microsoft has put support for the controller on their os so why not use it. Use of the controller has become popular with people. They probably based their decision to make the 360 controller one of the stock ways to play on it's popularity and the fact that the functionality s built into the windows os which would make it easier to implement.

[Poet1960]

All i will say on this is a lot of games have 360 controller support and some of them are not on xbox but microsoft has put support for the controller on their os so why not use it. Use of the controller has become popular with people. They probably based their decision to make the 360 controller one of the stock ways to play on it's popularity and the fact that the functionality s built into the windows os which would make it easier to implement.

Controllers don't need shaders.

[loxen]

All i will say on this is a lot of games have 360 controller support and some of them are not on xbox but microsoft has put support for the controller on their os so why not use it. Use of the controller has become popular with people. They probably based their decision to make the 360 controller one of the stock ways to play on it's popularity and the fact that the functionality s built into the windows os which would make it easier to implement.

Controllers don't need shaders.

I understand what you are saying. I guess my point is this.

To have a SIM such as X3 is NOT a easy feat. The sheer amount of options are staggering.

If I wanna get in a trade ship and trade I can.

If I wanna automate my trade through hiring a pilot and setting criteria through which I want him to trade I can.

If I wanna Pilot a Huge Carrier ship While launching squadrons of fighters, some of which equipped to do shield damage, some for hull damage, some for taking out light fighters, some for taking out corvettes, I can

If I wanna run scout in a light and super fast ship I can..
If I wanna run in a M7 like the Griffon Sentinel equipped with FAA,CAA, and CIGs I can

I can get out of my ship and repair.
I can fly or remote my ships.
In X3 it felt advanced. I felt I could control the universe from my keyboard.

Now I can fly my ship from a controller...

I can go on...

Don't take away a option because "you" don't feel it's fun. And it is the inherent lack of options which take this game out of the SIM category as far as I'm concerned.

You can make the game more user friendly yet still have a level of complexity. To base what you can and can not do, or what they decided to include and not to include, based on the primary input device is just bad business.

Rather than saying This is our controller, what can we do?
Say, This is what we want to do, What do we need to do to make it function and be friendly to users.

This is a SIM! Fleet control, Targeting, Systems management and so on..

Do we expand the tutorial?
Do we cover all aspects through a better written hand book?

Even taking into account this "Is not X4" Rebirth still lacks the options, which on a basic level, lets you control things...

Protect this ship..
Attack this target..
You are blue wing..

Or trade...

You trade this sector..
You trade these wares..

Rather you turn into a micromanage whore..

And...

With lack of options you take away my control of playing the game how I want and turn it into playing a game how you want me to play..

Right down do the best input device you have desired for me..

Again If this was X4 I would hold the game to all these standers but as it is not...

I digress..

[Akeela]

All i will say on this is a lot of games have 360 controller support and some of them are not on xbox but microsoft has put support for the controller on their os so why not use it. Use of the controller has become popular with people. They probably based their decision to make the 360 controller one of the stock ways to play on it's popularity and the fact that the functionality s built into the windows os which would make it easier to implement.

Controller support is one thing. The game is DESIGNED around controllers as the only way to play it. X:Rebirth has the lone distinction of being the only PC exclusive game that has every defining aspect of a BAD console port game. Everything PC games complain about bad porting can be found in this game.

[loxen]

I would also add that I think the NDA was up right up till the launch. Should be a red flag right there..

I beta tested games like EQ1, and Asherons and many many games after..

Lets see..Hmmm..

EQ1
Asherons Call
Earth and beyond
DoAc
SwG
EvE
WoW
CoH
D&D
LoTr
The Matrix
DCU
Star Trek
Tabula Rasa
SwToR
Asherons Call 2
Mortal online
EQ2

And I dont think I have ever seen a NDA run right up to the second of a launch..

[Kregoth]

WOW! You do realize this completely invalidates everything you and anyone says?

I stopped playing the game when the trading was broken for a week or two there and after having to edit save games, download mods, edit XML files, and more just to get the game to work on a basic level, have since decided this is not the X game for me.

Playing a game should not be chore. It should be enjoyed..

I really hope the people that enjoy the game continue to do so and really really really hope Ego has learned a lesson from this..

So basically, you stopped playing the game and are now bitching because you haven't put forth the effort to actually try the game again? Editing your saves is NOT A FIX! You are most likely breaking your save!

This is NOT a game you can finish, nor see all of in 30 hours..... ask yourself, did X3 take 30 hours to figure out everything? No!

The current version plays just fine, why not try it again? Oh but this time, just ignore the forums, because it seems you like to play the forum game more than X:Rebirth. The forum game is the worst game ever made, please stop trying to play it

Everyone who is editing their saves, or adding mods that alter the game too much, STOP! You can't bitch about something breaking, when you broke it yourselves you morons!

[loxen]

WOW! You do realize this completely invalidates everything you and anyone says?

I stopped playing the game when the trading was broken for a week or two there and after having to edit save games, download mods, edit XML files, and more just to get the game to work on a basic level, have since decided this is not the X game for me.

Playing a game should not be chore. It should be enjoyed..

I really hope the people that enjoy the game continue to do so and really really really hope Ego has learned a lesson from this..

So basically, you stopped playing the game and are now bitching because you haven't put forth the effort to actually try the game again? Editing your saves is NOT A FIX! You are most likely breaking your save!

This is NOT a game you can finish, nor see all of in 30 hours..... ask yourself, did X3 take 30 hours to figure out everything? No!

The current version plays just fine, why not try it again? Oh but this time, just ignore the forums, because it seems you like to play the forum game more than X:Rebirth. The forum game is the worst game ever made, please stop trying to play it

Everyone who is editing their saves, or adding mods that alter the game too much, STOP! You can't bitch about something breaking, when you broke it yourselves you morons!

Oh where do I start with you...

1st of off I fail to see the "bitching" in my thread

2nd, don't preach to me about game time or what it takes to play a X game.. I have over 100 Hrs in rebirth and over 2 years in X3

3rd "put forth the effort to actually try the game again? Editing your saves is NOT A FIX!" Why? Trade is still broke, building is still broke, Pathing is still broke.

Also If the people that made the game cant make it so I can finish a plot mission, therefor breaking the game, and I can edit my save to progress the story, it is a FIX so that I can keep playing.. Is it the right fix? No, but they cant fix the game proper ether..

4th "adding mods that alter the game too much, STOP! You can't bitch about something breaking, when you broke it yourselves you morons.

I added a mod for no jump fuel because the game was broke and my ships would not refuel.

I added IA script so that my engineer would repair a ship because again it was broke and did not work.

I added a script to remove mass traffic so that I could finish building my plot station because why? you guessed it. mass traffic was in the way and prevented me from finishing this mission..

Shall I keep going?

5th "You are most likely breaking your save!" Never had a problem with a broken save..

6th "You do realize this completely invalidates everything you and anyone says?" HuH? Do I realize that the game "was" broken to the point that I could not advance the plot without Save game edits, Mods, and XML edits?

I NEVER ran into a case where any editing or mods broke my game..Ego did that. In fact everything I did helped the game be more playable and without them I doubt I would have ever finished the plot..

Even in the current build people still cant finish the plot because of mass traffic stopping them from building the plot station..

And last..

"you stopped playing the game and are now bitching because you haven't put forth the effort to actually try the game again?"


Dont take to me about putting forth effort..Thats all I have done for the past 100+ hrs I have in game.. I put every effort forth.. Trying to get fixes and workarounds to try to play a game they should never have sold me..

Bah..I shall feed you no longer troll...

[Santi]

Even in the current build people still cant finish the plot because of mass traffic stopping them from building the plot station..

Many moons ago, I stopped my campaign game when I have to build such station, metal plating ad infinitum issues, but the mass traffic is new to me, will you be so kind to elaborate more about it, as it will help the players trying to finish the mission and will do a great service to the community.

[Virtualaughing]

WOW! You do realize this completely invalidates everything you and anyone says?

I stopped playing the game when the trading was broken for a week or two there and after having to edit save games, download mods, edit XML files, and more just to get the game to work on a basic level, have since decided this is not the X game for me.

Playing a game should not be chore. It should be enjoyed..

I really hope the people that enjoy the game continue to do so and really really really hope Ego has learned a lesson from this..

So basically, you stopped playing the game and are now bitching because you haven't put forth the effort to actually try the game again? Editing your saves is NOT A FIX! You are most likely breaking your save!

This is NOT a game you can finish, nor see all of in 30 hours..... ask yourself, did X3 take 30 hours to figure out everything? No!

The current version plays just fine, why not try it again? Oh but this time, just ignore the forums, because it seems you like to play the forum game more than X:Rebirth. The forum game is the worst game ever made, please stop trying to play it

Everyone who is editing their saves, or adding mods that alter the game too much, STOP! You can't bitch about something breaking, when you broke it yourselves you morons!

OKAY
how the heck i supposed to figure out to force ship production if i can not even deliver the required resources????
Can you please tell me if i have the required ammount of E-cells on my rahanas(whatevername) ship and it is few kilometer(?) away from me, yet i has no ship with E-cells that can be sold on a STORILINE station?

I think I'm TOP TEN with my Reunion savedgame WITHOUT a single help from forums. If i can not figure out something, that is solid proof for the game is BROKEN!

[loxen]

Even in the current build people still cant finish the plot because of mass traffic stopping them from building the plot station..

Many moons ago, I stopped my campaign game when I have to build such station, metal plating ad infinitum issues, but the mass traffic is new to me, will you be so kind to elaborate more about it, as it will help the players trying to finish the mission and will do a great service to the community.

Sure..

I was playing a few weeks ago to see how the patching was going. Like I said last time I had played the trade was totally shut down so I stopped playing.

I seen that the trade was "Fixed" So I tried again.

While working for the most part I was able to build my plot station up to lvl2.

While trying to progress to LvL 3 I seen that my architect, when given all the items needed to build, was giving me a error..

"Unable to build due to traffic or a ship in the way of building..

Again I was left to figure out what the problem was..

Seems that the game puts mass traffic around your station as soon as the construction ship has selected a place to build.. There is nothing there, Just rafters..

I was thinking..why are these ships here? I read the Dev say every ship has a purpose but clearly there was no reason for them to be here yet..

As the station was being built I noticed my construction URV's being trapped in the building structure itself.

As it turned out it was that traffic that stopped phase 3 from being built.

I downloaded a MOD to remove the mass traffic so that phase 3 could be built then returned the traffic to normal..

Again me employing a temporary fix in order to advance the PLOT. The main portion of the game which everyone new starting out will do in order to learn the game..

If the system you use as a tutorial, in this case the "plot" is broken on nearly every mission..

What does that say?

[leecarter]

So basically, you stopped playing the game and are now bitching because you haven't put forth the effort to actually try the game again? Editing your saves is NOT A FIX! You are most likely breaking your save!

This is NOT a game you can finish, nor see all of in 30 hours..... ask yourself, did X3 take 30 hours to figure out everything? No!

Steam says I have 1.6 hours in game.

My game experience on November 15th:
* Why isn't my joystick working?
* After 2 hours of fiddling with stick profiles and key mappings in the game I finally got the damn joystick to work. Time to play!
* This UI... mother of god...
* Where's the gravidar? This is 2013 right?
* Hmm, must have not mapped my keys right because I can't look around the cockpit... wait, what?
* Surely I can interact with something, anything, in the ships interior...
* The station interiors... mother of god...
* The NPCs... mother of god...
* I'm supposed to loot space suits from lockers and air vents? Seriously?
* Why is this NPC doing squats?
* Uninstalled.

That's all it took. It was enough to know the rest of the game was going to be an incomplete bug filled mess and more frustration than it was worth. Was I wrong? As it turned out most of the people on the forums and **EVERY** reviewer ended up agreeing with me.

I have no more reason to spend dozens of hours trying to "discover" it than I do dissecting my dog's droppings - I already know what's inside. And yes, the hours I've spent playing X3 run well into the triple digits.

[Santi]

Why is this NPC doing squats?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39YUXIKrOFk

Please sex up a bit.

[wtfdidibuy]

Amen to this post good sir i don't know how anyone that isn't a brainwashed fanboy is enjoying this game if they are they have a very low bar for video games

[Santi]

Amen to this post good sir i don't know how anyone that isn't a brainwashed fanboy is enjoying this game if they are they have a very low bar for video games

It is true, I was in the dark, but then, the light, show me the way, but it was not easy and I dreamed of bugs eating my flesh, and devouring all that was dear to me. I persevered and, as the warrior I am, I keep fighting but, alas! It did drown me, my sorrow ate away the life you and me share, this is the end, please hold me tight.

[jasonbarron]

Amen to this post good sir i don't know how anyone that isn't a brainwashed fanboy is enjoying this game if they are they have a very low bar for video games

It is true, I was in the dark, but then, the light, show me the way, but it was not easy and I dreamed of bugs eating my flesh, and devouring all that was dear to me. I persevered and, as the warrior I am, I keep fighting but, alas! It did drown me, my sorrow ate away the life you and me share, this is the end, please hold me tight.

Damn santi, I am having the exact same experience...do you think ol' wtf can hold both of us?

[Santi]

Jasonbarron you and I can see the light.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv_E8eBbaOs

6 minutes and I am young again.

[Santi]

****** Hallelujah