No mention of a living breathing universe besides "Economy"?

[Ovni]

I think everyone that enjoys interesting characters, lore, or missions with a human touch has left this series a long time ago. I'm the only one left, surrounded on these forums by number-crunching semi-organic entities.

Still, I'm gonna be the voice of those players you might hope to bring back, Egosoft. In the original X and X2 there was a sense of wonder of discovery; as silly as they were the various races felt really alien, with their own quirks. The various little news stories (Boron princess and the like) mixed in with the mission offers on the BBS gave some background to the world and made it feel more alive. After all, when you walk into a (space) bar after a long haul, besides a drink, the first thing you look for is for gossip.

As X2 evolved into X3: Reunion, X3: Terran Conflict and X3: Albion Prelude, those little flavour elements were either recycled as-is (no more sense of discovery) or simply cut. With the final situation being a game that's just about economic actors moving around, and NPCs that the most boring quest-givers ever to (dis-)grace a video game.

So, I'm glad you're shooting for a great sandbox (and hearing about the new map with some actual controls that make sense for a management game elicited a sigh of relief), but I hope you also invest some time in weaving human elements into the sandbox.

I'm hoping for something a little more dynamic than X2, but it doesn't have to be much. For instance if the Boron princess is travelling through some system, it would be nice to actually see the royal ships moving through, i.e. some small correlations between what's happening in-world and in the news. Then if you or the Xenon or some other factions blow them up, it would be reflected in the news and might have way bigger consequences than blowing up regular cargo ships, giving us a sense that there are real politics at play.

Same for the missions, having a few choices to make Witcher 3-style would be nice, with the appropriate consequences. Given that most of it happens over the comm channel it would be pretty easy to conjure some emotional moments. No need for cinematic cutscenes, just well written text (voice acting optional) about a betrayed brother seeking revenge.

Lastly even for the economic-minded, having the ability to smell some implicit business opportunities by reading the news would feel great and would mimic the real world. Terrible plague striking a world? The cost of medicine must have gone way up, so I could use the opportunity to make more or less ethical profits or get on good terms with a faction. But I don't need a dumb quest-giver shoving the info in my face, let me guess it and investigate on-site. Important dignitaries on a diplomatic mission in the Tauri B system? Sounds like those big shots would pay a renowned pilot well for an escort, especially if I have contacts who can convince them the area is dangerous. There are countless opportunities to both give context to the world and give subtle implicit missions like this.

[kolimbo]

I think the universe will already be more dynamic if you can destroy races(I think one of the audiences asked this). This implies that you can take over sectors (either for yourself or for your allies). That alone is a HUGE improvement to the sandbox in X3tc/ap.

I am perfectly happy with that if it is true.

[Ovni]

I think the universe will already be more dynamic if you can destroy races(I think one of the audiences asked this). This implies that you can take over sectors (either for yourself or for your allies). That alone is a HUGE improvement to the sandbox in X3tc/ap.

I am perfectly happy with that if it is true.

Sure, I guess, as long as the politics surrounding that make sense. If you're getting that dangerous, and are bloodthirsty enough to genocide an entire race, other nations tend to ally against you (they don't wanna be next). Unless the guys you're exterminating are universally hating, getting to that state might be a goal in itself.

Without a minimum of those elements the feeling I get is more like pointing toy ships at each other and making "Pew Pew Pew!" sounds, not of affecting a real universe.

[nap_rz]

Also worry about the npc persistency, will it have the old all persistent npc or will there be procgen filler inconsequential npc like rebirth and elite dangerous?

[CutterJohn1]

One thing I've always wanted to see is pirates actually committing, you know... piracy. Swoop in, hold ships to ransom, grab the loot, and skedaddle.

Instead, they're just hostile mooks, with no real agenda.

[aquatica]

Swoop in, hold ships to ransom, grab the loot, and skedaddle.

Instead, they're just hostile mooks, with no real agenda.

This.

So.Much.This.

They come in, do some scanning, find something they want or need and they threaten to take it - maybe shoot out a little. Then the cargo is dumped and the good 'ol guys pick it up and leave, before anyone strong enough gets there.

And the news from X2 I miss a lot, too. As pointed earlier, it would be cool to have news mention about said plague or other calamity out there somewhere, not letting on too clearly what is needed and where.
Would work the other way around as well; "A massive teladianium trade went south in Albion, suppliers warehouses over the capacity". Or maybe add such as an rumor; "There's rumor on the streets that Albion government is looking to buy large quantities of <something, not necessarily told out right>" - player could guess that it's around Albion alright, then get there to see what's in short supply? Find the place willing to buy? Not that Foodstuffs factory, how about that Solar array then?

Similar to the X:R's special trade offers, but with a little twist. You could well make fortunes without following the news, but if you wanted to have some impact (even inside your own head), that would be nice way to do it. Shouldn't be too difficult, shouldn't be too much work I think.

[Lifeforce87]

Politics would be really great.

Now image if you kill the leader of a race, the next one that gets elected rules the race like a dictator, blocking all the entrances to their sectors and declares wars.
Chaos breaks out while there is no leader so more pirates are underway and some systems are falling into anarchy.
Some of their own people form something like a rebellion to bring back order to their sectors.
You could intervene and kill their leader so that another, maybe like a democratic leader gets to rule that race or some sectors.

Ohh, I would love that.

Please keep in mind that English isn't my native language, but I think you understand what I mean.

[Sorkvild]

That would be great if X4 had a dynamically changing BBS system. Something happens, pirates raiding party, bounty letters, wanted pirate gets killed, xenon outbreak in sector, prices drop/rise somewhere, rare weapons in stock - we want to read about these events in BBS system. Besides that I want a ton of random messages dipped within the lore, this fluff that immerse you even deeper within the game universe, even the lottery, betting on fictional sporting teams and other smaller minigames. Something that is like the internet in GTA V perhaps but done Egosoft way.

I remember during X2 sessions back in the day reading about the random stuff and background politics and gossips, all those stories were really influencing your imagination and eventually finding their way to speak and joke about them here at the forum
X2 was also praised for its exploration. Finding those hidden spec-op bases behind hull damaging gas clouds, very far lying research station, smuggler posts, asteroids with drilled tunnels... in X3 it was kinda gone and games were more like routine driven. Yes, routine is something I'd like to avoid in X4. Each game different, more randomness - That is what Bernd said during the XCON, keeping the fingers crossed man.

I also really hope there will be a good portion of exploration in X4 - a living world far away from the busy highways waiting to be discovered.

We want rich lore back again, not just only a game that looks like some data-entry interface filled with usual routine where the best fun is to destroy an entire race, claim all sectors or build a economy shaking space empire to j**k off to, really.

[Skeeter]

Ah like minded people, its nice to see you also providing a voice.

I too am worried about claims of more dynamic and simulated universe as if that only relates to the economy and shifting prices then that's a bit boring IMO it doesn't really make the universe more alive just a working economy which to me I'd rather the dynamic of a universe be more political with races being controlled by ai that has set agendas and tactics per race/faction and strive to complete aims. Kinda like playing a 4x strategy game like galactic civ or civ or the likes where each race is different and do different things and u can see it actually happen.

[Sandalpocalypse]

Pirates actually destroy then loot freighters in XR. it's just uncommon to see because usually they get potted by station defenses.

[aquatica]

Diversity is a thing that would be hard to create. But essentially:

Human/Terran would go for more diplomatic "in the back", back-stabbing "for myself"-stuff where as Split would be more warmongering tribes and Paranids would hit the mark with spiritual xenophobia.
Few ideas on about how this could manifest itself in the game:
- H/T would prefer diplomacy over bloodshed, peace over war, trade over piracy...
- Split would prefer taking what they *want* with what they already have - i.e force. So if a zone near Split zone would suddenly become void of real strength (i.e player kills all the sector patrol ships etc) they might try to take it for themselves
- Paranid would simply close all borders from all "ugly things", unless they were really worth the trouble - like the player convincing them to let the player fly to their zone and do trading, or get them some necessities to survive etc.

Just a few small things that would beef up the game. It could be seen in pirates as well - which faction is the background for said pirate. A Split would probably be very fierce fighter where as Human would be excellent assassin or information broker, and so on.

Oh, and the BBS. Can I stress this enough? PS, I never won the jackpot on X2 - did anyone, has anyone still won it (proven and not cheated)?

Not sure if should be BBS like - it might be best usable, but also on billboards and what not. Maybe so that your co-pilot notifies you of a possible business adventure (there would really need to be option to turn off!)? Dunno. But if there is a good way to implement this, I would so much love it.

Heck, I would be willing to write a line or two if it comes down to that...

[X2-Illuminatus]

Xenon_Slayer mentioned in the X4 - Ten question for developers thread that missions will also be more dynamic in the way that they are offered based on what is actually happening in the universe.

10) Will you improve generic mission variety and review their logic?

There should be more happening in the universe which can than trigger missions based on those events. There will still be generic missions which may 'fabricate' the scenario as it was in previous games, but we do of course want these to have as little fakery as possible.

[rulerofallcheese]

If NPCs really are responsible for making their own economic decisions now, then they should also either attack their competitors or generate pirate-y missions asking you for help doing the same. I feel that this way the pirating would actually make sense instead of just being a random no consequence spawns.

I also would like to see more varied pirate missions instead of mostly just fighting ones. Here are some ideas.

1) When an npc decides to build a station you might see a mission to hijack their construction vessel with the station still inside.

2) Lay mines somewhere that freighters/miners will be coming through and collect/scoop up the freight.

3) Physically land on a platform and sabotoge someone else's ship so they explode upon takeoff.

4) During a taxi mission, you could decide to take your passenger prisoner and hold them for ransom.

5) Join a pirate raiding party that is about to attack a station module. This would be great as you would be on the opposite side of the fight that you normally participate in in. You might be responsible for destroying/hacking some turrets on a station to help the rest of the raider party.

6) Use drones to remote-scan a station and sell their industrial secrets to competitors.

7) You are sent to specifically kill/distract those police that scan ships so pirate smugglers can transport some contraband.

8 ) Wipe out one of the destroyers protecting a sector/zone/whatever. This would turn the area into a "lawless zone" temporarily.

9) Shake up the market by disabling one of the highways/highway rings.

10) PIRATE BASES NEED TO MOVE AROUND like the did in X3 R/TC/AP. Make some of the pirate bases carriers instead of full blown stations. They should retreat/jump/teleport when in danger or when their area has become unprofitable.

[BmB]

Well X has always had an A-life type system where all NPC's are real and persistent. So far they've mainly been traders. But I think it would make sense to extend those behaviours. That would be really exciting.

[tezboyes]

I always liked the way that worked in Space Rangers. Not sure if that universe was as dynamic and responsive to player action as claimed, but it felt so. And the News/BBS was part of that.

[RodentofDoom]

fairly certain they said stations can explode

thats fairly dynamic imo

[Nanook]

Having a station blow up doesn't give life or flavor to the universe. It's just another entry in the spreadsheet where things get blown up all the time. And without some sort of news dissemination, the player might not even notice it, well, unless the player did it.

And you'd get a different 'flavor' depending on who did the reporting. An Argon station gets blown up and the Paranid shout HOORAY!, while the Argon start making threats against the culprit(s). This is the kind of thing that makes a universe feel alive, not some entry in a spreadsheet.

[RAVEN.myst]

Lastly even for the economic-minded, having the ability to smell some implicit business opportunities by reading the news would feel great and would mimic the real world. Terrible plague striking a world? The cost of medicine must have gone way up, so I could use the opportunity to make more or less ethical profits or get on good terms with a faction. But I don't need a dumb quest-giver shoving the info in my face, let me guess it and investigate on-site. Important dignitaries on a diplomatic mission in the Tauri B system? Sounds like those big shots would pay a renowned pilot well for an escort, especially if I have contacts who can convince them the area is dangerous. There are countless opportunities to both give context to the world and give subtle implicit missions like this.

That would be great if X4 had a dynamically changing BBS system. Something happens, pirates raiding party, bounty letters, wanted pirate gets killed, xenon outbreak in sector, prices drop/rise somewhere, rare weapons in stock - we want to read about these events in BBS system. Besides that I want a ton of random messages dipped within the lore, this fluff that immerse you even deeper within the game universe, even the lottery, betting on fictional sporting teams and other smaller minigames. Something that is like the internet in GTA V perhaps but done Egosoft way.

This takes me back to when I first started playing the series, with X2. The BBS was great at first, providing me with lore on the universe, making it come alive a little. But then came disappointment as I realised that it was unconnected to actual events within the game. It was still flavourful, but I wished there were a two-way correlation between events and reports - reports, I wished, should reflect actual in-game events, and conversely in-game events (including those precipitated by the player) should then find their way into the reports, and possibly even result in a feedback loop. The functionality was not beyond the tech of the day, and it's even more possible nowadays, so I really hope that it finds its way into X, ideally into X4, but if not, then into a subsequent add-on or such...

[lostProfitssssArrgh]

The BBS was great at first, providing me with lore on the universe, making it come alive a little.

ES might as well look into that, text is cheap to implement and very enriching when done well (as others also pointed out).

But then came disappointment as I realised that it was unconnected to actual events within the game. It was still flavourful, but I wished there were a two-way correlation between events and reports - reports, I wished, should reflect actual in-game events, and conversely in-game events (including those precipitated by the player) should then find their way into the reports, and possibly even result in a feedback loop.

That would be nice too, although it could quickly become repetitive unless a good deal of effort is put into reporting a wide variety of events. The tricky part comes when trying to implement responses to initial events : that would have to rely on more on good programming than just writing. I don't know if there are some algos out there that handle this type of problem, but it's an interesting research topic.

[CBJ]

...text is cheap to implement...

Er, no, no it isn't.