Why not let the community design new ships?

[Shehriazad]

I REALLY like how some other games handle this. There are a few dev studios that ask the community to design content, have the community vote on it, and then this content gets added to the game and is then "canon".

Of course the BALANCING aspect remains in the hands of the Devs (and modders ). The devs simply give out a set of guidelines and rules such as:

-Max Polycount/texture resolutions per shipclass
-File Format
-Design Philosophies based on factions
-Maximum amount of hard-points players are allowed to play around with. So let's say S can have a maximum of 10 hardpoints. Of which some are shield, some are engine, some are weapon.
-And the obvious fact that every submission has to be original content.



Now you let modders and fans just go to TOWN.

Let them upload that stuff to the Workshop or on your own site. Let them vote on it.

And every once in a while you select a winner or two.


Then you add a handful of ships regularly.

Of course the HOW can be very varied. They could be venture rewards, they could just appear in-game or it's just put into a pseudo-dlc package. Selling it at a low price WOULD be an option but Im not sure how this community would like it, personally I wouldn't mind if the creators get a mandatory cut.
Alternatively purchasing the blueprints for Egocredits would be a nice idea as well once that system is expanded...that way people could get the Blueprint for Egocredits and then mass produce the thing and also send it on ventures again..where people can capture it and reverse engineer it again.

[lordmuck]

I would add a "rule" that the ships need to follow the lore in terms of style

[Shehriazad]

I would add a "rule" that the ships need to follow the lore in terms of style

That falls under design philosophies, I'd guess ^^;


So the Teladi like their round shapes but also don't care much for taking care of the "small details" so you'll see loose wires n shit everywhere.

The Paranid like anything flat and pancake-y and so on.

And since it has to be original content and needs to follow the design philosophies they can't just copy the old games' style...but rather try to find something that looks good while doing the new style.

[Killjaeden]

Selling it at a low price WOULD be an option but Im not sure how this community would like it, personally I wouldn't mind if the creators get a mandatory cut.

It comes with a lot of legal baggage that the devs would have to deal with are propably not willing to handle (especially for such a small team). So thats the first barrier.
Second... quality is wildly different between people. If somebody works 50+h on a ship in the hopes to get it in the game and devs say "no, not good quality" how would that somebody feel?
Third... would require having proper modding tools for X4 first. A ship is more than just a hull (in X3 that may have worked, not in X4 with all the modules).
Fourth... they have watered down their own design style (compared to X3), so it is no longer clear what the design language of Teladi or Argon actually is ...

[Axeface]

Im against it in general.

The only way I see it working and not being exploitative is doing a contest type of arrangement with prizes for the winners and runners up, like Star Citizen did with 'The Next Great Starship'. It was great fun to watch and the company found great talent.

There was a time when I would have agreed with the OP completely. But recent years have hardened my opinion and I now despise this type of practice - if the stock game is not complete that is.
To warrant modders pouring their time and energy into a game so much requires AT LEAST that the base game is complete, in my opinion, and X4's designs are all over the place. Modders should be expanding upon a base, not creating the base content for it.
As for modders getting paid, that cant even be brought up anymore, dont even think about it. The 'community' showed their true colours on the matter when bethesda tried it, and I myself found the reaction revolting. God forbid someone should be able to make a little cash out of their talent, no, they should continue to give all users their time and never even contemplate any compensation, right?

*Flameshield activated*

[TDQuasar]

I'd rather see quality content coming only from devs. For fan fiction we have mods.

[strask412]

There are a few dev studios that ask the community to design content, have the community vote on it, and then this content gets added to the game and is then "canon".

Egosoft actually has done some similar stuff in the past, not what you want but accomplishes a good part of what you are describing, without as much overhead. The process I've observed with X2 and the various X3 games was like this:

1) Egosoft releases buggy 1.0 of game. (sorry Egosoft, we love you anyway!)
2) Egosoft spends the next months fixing bugs and resolving core gameplay issues.
3) Simultaneously, modders create additional content (mostly in the form of scripts, with the occasional ship, weapon, etc.)
4) Eventually core game is stable and the next two steps occur in either order and potentially multiple times:
- Egosoft combines (with the permission of the mod authors) a set of the most useful mods, which are in the spirit of the core game and work well together, into a "Bonus Pack". This bonus pack is tested for compatibility and stability and signed with Egosoft's encryption keys to indicate that it's "official". Users can install the bonus pack and the game does not treat it as "mods", and does not mark the save game as "modified". For most purposes it is the same for the end user as if it were original Egosoft content at that point. Bonus Packs are no-cost, free downloads.
- Egosoft works on content updates, such as the Bala Gi update for X2 or the Aldrin Expansion update (2.0) for X3:TC. These updates almost always include new Egosoft-designed ships and/or sectors and plot missions. They are provided at no cost to everyone who owns the game.

I see no reason why an X4 bonus pack couldn't include ships. Making a ship in X4 looks like a LOT more work than in previous X games, but some modders are up to the challenge.

The point is, if Egosoft were to make a big official event / community voting / rules and guidelines / paid dlc with a cut for the modders / etc..., it might end up resulting in a few more ship designs, but the bandwidth it would consume in terms of Egosoft employee time would be far greater than what they have done in the past. That could impact Egosoft's ability to deliver the big official-content updates in a timely manner. The process they have used in the past seems to work well and does get some community content into the core game via bonus packs, while at the same time leaving Egosoft mostly free to work on official updates. I think it's a great middle ground, and hope to see this trend continue.

Of course, once Egosoft is happy with the free content they have released, they also sometimes release paid DLC like Albion Prelude. That's great too and I think current plans are to add the Boron and Split factions in such DLC, once X4 is stable and working smoothly. Entire faction adds such as those would of course come with more new ships.

[Max Bain]

I would add a "rule" that the ships need to follow the lore in terms of style

Please No!
I dont understand why people think that a whole race of aliens would all design their ships the same style... even every country on earth does not have the same style for their military vehicles and we talk only about military stuff here while in X4 we have traders, miners and so on.

DONT MAKE ALL SHIPS LOOK THE SAME AS WE HAVE NOW WITH THE TELADI SPACEMUSHROOMS.

Its not realistic and looks awful and boring.

"Shall I fly the small, the medium or the large mushroom..."

Elite does it way better. There are some groups of ships that have similar style but they all come from the same manufacturer, so you know why they look like they do. But the ships are all made from humans.. so you have a very wide range of designs you can pick from and it feels way better/more realistic.

[freiman17]

I think it would add a lot of depth to the game if you occasionally ran across an obsolete ship every now and again.

It would be awesome to run into a Teladi Bat, an Orinoco, or a Bayamon delivering supplies to a refinery out at the back of beyond.

That's probably really tough from a programming standpoint, but it would add a tremendous amount of verisimilitude. I mean, not all the cars on the road are this year's model.

f

[Warnoise]

The community is already doing the programmer's job by fixing AI related problems and adding content that was supposed in the game on release (Player Shipyard and TL ships)

You want them to do the Designer's job too?

At this rate the devs might as well sit back and let the community develop X5 for them.

[strask412]

The community is already doing the programmer's job by fixing AI related problems and adding content that was supposed in the game on release (Player Shipyard and TL ships)

That is dreadfully inaccurate.

Just to call out the most obvious thing, the player shipyard mod and the resupply ships mod essentially just activate assets and code that Egosoft developed and included in the game files but did not yet open up to users because they aren't quite ready. I'm not disparaging the work of the mod authors, but Egosoft did most of the heavy lifting already.

Also, I don't believe there was ever a commitment from Egosoft to have player shipyards in game in 1.0.

[Mightysword]

I would add a "rule" that the ships need to follow the lore in terms of style

Seeing the "lore" design itself had changed with every single major iteration of the game, I'm not exactly sure there is a basic for that.

[Requiemfang]

Also, I don't believe there was ever a commitment from Egosoft to have player shipyards in game in 1.0.

There wasn't though they are aiming for 2.0 or post 2.0 to get player owned shipyards into the game.

[Tomonor]

There are a few dev studios that ask the community to design content, have the community vote on it, and then this content gets added to the game and is then "canon".

I don't see how that would work out in the long run. I, for one, am very sensitive with the ship/station designs Egosoft produces (that's why I find it weird/hard to intake the overal design changes every other X game). If we added community designs to the mix, it could throw the whole canon off, which is already loose enough by the way.


I say, if there are modelers/modders dedicated enough to this game, they still could figure out and implement quite awesome and radical ship designs in the future, although it will probably be a rare sight to see actual new ship mods (not ported from Rebirth or other installments) in this game. And who knows, now that we have gotten a station editor with X4, maybe in X5 we will get a ship editor too! Can't wait for X6's planetary landing feature as well!

[lordmuck]

I would add a "rule" that the ships need to follow the lore in terms of style

Please No!
I dont understand why people think that a whole race of aliens would all design their ships the same style... even every country on earth does not have the same style for their military vehicles and we talk only about military stuff here while in X4 we have traders, miners and so on.

DONT MAKE ALL SHIPS LOOK THE SAME AS WE HAVE NOW WITH THE TELADI SPACEMUSHROOMS.

Its not realistic and looks awful and boring.

"Shall I fly the small, the medium or the large mushroom..."

Elite does it way better. There are some groups of ships that have similar style but they all come from the same manufacturer, so you know why they look like they do. But the ships are all made from humans.. so you have a very wide range of designs you can pick from and it feels way better/more realistic.

No not the same, go look at x3, all ships follow lore some what non are identical like we have in X4 stupid repetitions and bits cut out to look "original" piss poor 5 min job at manipulating 1 model imo.

[Tomonor]

Its not realistic and looks awful and boring.

"Shall I fly the small, the medium or the large mushroom..."

Elite does it way better. There are some groups of ships that have similar style but they all come from the same manufacturer, so you know why they look like they do. But the ships are all made from humans.. so you have a very wide range of designs you can pick from and it feels way better/more realistic.

This is a matter of detail (that Rebirth has pretty much attempted, unsuccessfully). X4 is basically generalised in terms of gameplay and lore. You get a bare minimum amount of ships for each role. You get ship names that are the easiest to interpret and make a connection with. You get a limited amount of factories/objects/wares/items/economy that doesn't flood you with unnecessary information and complicated usability.

This is done so the consumer doesn't get lost in the universe the first second. I always was a big X fan, yet Rebirth did manage to render me clueless about how things worked and what to expect from what. It was such a new and unexpected formula that it threw me completely off, and I only started to appriciate it now that X4 is released with its generalised content.

[lordmuck]

I honestly cannot stand the way all the models are only the Buzzard and Peregrine if I had to choose one to save my life it would be them.
Yet I wish Egosoft would look back on their old models like the nova and look at x4 nova, Id love to see them say that they love the x4 version more. Looking top down its like a table top with a glass nipple.

Most ships look like they were chopped in half like they made them too big for the docking bays of ships. Like the Nodan, Eclipse and Nova.
They really did not need to make the stupid large lifts on the Cerberus and osprey, which made them look extremely ugly. Then the Teladi have 3 types of mushrooms with a bit of random something shape stuck somewhere or a part cut out, or stretched to look ORIGINAL? Paranid is the same bits cut out to look different lol.

Nah I honestly wish I looked at pics and stuff before buying yet I wanted to go in X4 blind and am sorely dissapointed with all the looks of ships.
Even the drones, looks like they quickly removed a main gun off it. The Gorgon also looks like it had two more front main weapons which were quickly removed. It also looks like a scifi version of Aladdins shoe, or some Indian style silk like cloth shoe with the gold sewn on trimmings, and turrets sticking out ugly af like a pimple on an elephants ass.
And dont get me started how all the turret mounts are looking like a sore thumb on most ships.

They need to go back to their roots! BTW Ospreys are well known for their wing span..Not a Brick with a fish tail.

I really wish they would do a remake of a ship at least 1 per month including more turrets to give us the feeling that we had from previous X games.

[Warnoise]

The community is already doing the programmer's job by fixing AI related problems and adding content that was supposed in the game on release (Player Shipyard and TL ships)

That is dreadfully inaccurate.

Just to call out the most obvious thing, the player shipyard mod and the resupply ships mod essentially just activate assets and code that Egosoft developed and included in the game files but did not yet open up to users because they aren't quite ready. I'm not disparaging the work of the mod authors, but Egosoft did most of the heavy lifting already.

Also, I don't believe there was ever a commitment from Egosoft to have player shipyards in game in 1.0.

Player shipyard was supposed to be available on release, yet the community had to do the job of fixing it and make it available. Egosoft doing "the heavy lifting" that you talk about is the minimum of what developers should do for what they get paid for. So that's not heavy lifting, since the heavy lifting consists of making something available and work as intended.

Same thing with resupply ships, almost 4 months now and no comments from Egosoft about them (maybe they were planned as "free additional ships" marketing stunt?). The community had to search for them and add them in a desperate attempt to add additional ships to the current poor ship selection while Egosoft still busy fixing bugs.

So yeah, the community is doing the heavy lifting here since currently without mods the game is barebones and barely works. Hell, someone found out that there are whole files related Faction wars missing, despite Egosoft saying that faction wars was fixed in 1.5.

It is rare to see a community as faithful as Egosoft's community especially after dealing with so much bull from them in the past. Egosoft shouldn't be abusing the goodwill of the Community by making them design their ships for free and then make them Egosoft assets.

Tl:dr While I am not believing that Egosoft is going to redesign ships, THEY should design their ships and at least hire better designers and work harder designing the new ships that will come with DLC's.

Because current ships design are objectively bad (considering the community feedback) and smell of laziness and lack of commitment.

[Socratatus]

I don`t like the idea of letting the Community design them. Car manufacturers don`t let the people design the car.

[strask412]

Player shipyard was supposed to be available on release,

False. Egosoft never promised that. If you think otherwise, prove it and cite a reference.

Egosoft doing "the heavy lifting" that you talk about is the minimum of what developers should do for what they get paid for.

I didn't say it was unpaid labor. I only said that Egosoft did that work, not modders.

Same thing with resupply ships

Same thing? Same as the shipyards? So you are asserting that Resupply Ships were promised as a 1.0 feature? That's totally false as well.

almost 4 months now and no comments from Egosoft about them

What exactly do you expect Egosoft to say? What information do you lack about Resupply ships? Here's a summary: They were created by Egosoft. They have models, textures, interiors, hardpoints, loadouts, physics, and animations. Hundreds or thousands of hours worth of work went into their development. And in 1.0 (and still in 1.50) the ships are not yet enabled for player use. Why do you suppose that might be?

(maybe they were planned as "free additional ships" marketing stunt?).

Then why weren't they enabled already? More likely Egosoft has future plans for these ships to be more awesome than they currently are and desires to imbue them with a not-yet-implemented mechanic of one sort or another. If that were the case, holding them back until Egosoft has a chance to implement that mechanic makes more sense than releasing ships which they plan to modify later, at the risk of breaking player save files.

The community had to search for them and add them in a desperate attempt to add additional ships to the current poor ship selection while Egosoft still busy fixing bugs.

Nobody "had" to do anything. The people who did, and do, and will continue to search through the game assets and scripts generally do so because it gives them enjoyment. Not out of any sense of desperation. Mods enabling the shipyard and Resupply Ships occurred ONLY because the assets were already present and complete. Ask those mod authors if they have both the skills AND available time to have completely added such things on their own since X4 was released, and let me know what they say.

currently without mods the game is barebones and barely works.

Fascinating. I find that statement both deeply subjective, and factually empty. Subjective because while it is obvious you aren't enjoying the unmodified game, many people including myself do... furthermore phrases like "barely works" are slippery and difficult to define. We could argue for DAYS about what constitutes "working" and what margin for error "barely" provides, before even moving on to the subject of actual game quality. Let's not do that. It's clear that you prefer the game with mods, and I think that the game as Egosoft has designed it is a good one, and THOSE TWO POINTS OF VIEW CAN COEXIST.

Hell, someone found out that there are whole files related Faction wars missing, despite Egosoft saying that faction wars was fixed in 1.5.

False. Egosoft never said that faction wars were fixed in 1.5. Here are the 1.50 patch notes if you would like to look for yourself.

Egosoft shouldn't be abusing the goodwill of the Community by making them design their ships for free and then make them Egosoft assets.

Correct. Egosoft shouldn't be doing that, and fortunately, they are NOT DOING THAT.