Is 7.0 Too Easy?

[Blankchild]

I don't know if this is the right place to put this, but 7.0 has been a disappointment. There's no challenge. Every faction has full fleets and decked out defensive stations. I miss Hatikvah i and the countless Xenon pouring out the gate. Maybe I've just have had bad seeds but it's been like this for my last 5 games.

[flywlyx]

It seems like it's an essential component of every update.
If they enhance the Xenon, Argon Prime will vanish within five hours; similarly, if they improve other NPCs, the Xenon threat diminishes.
Just give us the Xenon slider!

[gbjbaanb]

or a steadily increasing xenon threat - starts very small and inoffensive, and builds up over time unless you reduce the shipyards producing more of them.

TBH I'm happy its not overrun already, I like to get those traders going without them suiciding in Hatkivah. The defense station is getting battered and no doubt will get destroyed in time, but not yet.

[SparvieroGed]

I'd like a slider (or better a lot of sliders and settings) I can modify during the game.

A X game last for hundreds of hours. I don't want to find out after 100 hours the Xenon are too weak or too strong. I don't have the time to restart the game until I get the right universe for me.

[geldonyetich]

I've put some thought into this myself. It does rely on a certain chain of logic:

Xenon escaping confinement and running amok -> it is harder to survive in X4: Foundations -> therefore containing the Xenon implicitly means it is now easier -> easier is less exciting and inferior -> 7.0 is too easy because (at least up to Beta 4) the Xenon are no longer escaping confinement and running amok to a great degree.

But to add a contrasting viewpoint, I had encountered the occasional 6.2 player who claimed that Xenon running amok was impacting their game experience negatively. They wanted to be able to enjoy the game as a free-wheeling miner/trader/whatever without needing to worry about the Xenon taking over the universe.

So I agree with suggestions that there probably ought to be different difficulties or modes that allow the players to set the propensity of Xenon incursion, perhaps including revamping the entire Existential Crisis feature to assure players looking for direct confrontation with the Xenon will always find it.

Or even an optional "pressure cooker" scenario where, as suggested above where, the longer you play, the more powerful the Xenon become so you're forced into an economic race of keeping up with them. Those who run the game on SETA mode all the time will be actively penalized for squandering precious time.

However, looked at more broadly, the problem is even more complex than that. There's many types of difficulty in X4: Foundations. Such as economic challenges, mission challenges, exploration challenges, expansion challenges, and so on. So "too easy/too hard" is a nuanced question.

I also think it's important to start considering the combat viability of the other factions. We don't want to go starting fights with the Split, Terrans, or the Paranid because there's no particular benefit to doing so, right? We have to be friends with them to access their blueprints, and we don't want to be harassed everywhere we go. There's no incentive to do fight them, so we never do.

Maybe we should have reason to fight them, or they have incentive to come fight us. We're missing out on a great deal of potentially interesting fights there. Many players were stunned when they triggered the aggression of VIG and found their fleets were woefully unprepared to handle fighters. When all we fight are Xenon and Kha'ak, there's a great deal of tactics we will never explore as players. Imagine how much more interesting and deep it would be to have to face the variety and challenges of facing diverse opponents! There's a great deal of depth being left unexplored there. And, with the 7.0 changes, their fleets are more responsive than ever! So they would actually be quite a bit harder to fight in 7.0.

So in the end, I think the greater problem with combat difficulty might be that X4: Foundations does not fully leverage its potential variety and depth through the natural flow of the player experience with it.

Because this doesn't happen, I can only assume that we're being asked to define our own difficulty in the current implementation of X4: Foundations. If your Xenon aren't difficult enough, help them take over the Split's territory, or something. Maybe take out the Xenon in all other parts of the gate network so they are forced to focus their entire offensive fleet allocation in one place. Then they'll be every bit the scourge you desire.

[jlehtone]

I can only assume that we're being asked to define our own difficulty in the current implementation of X4: Foundations. If your Xenon aren't difficult enough, help them take over the Split's territory, or something.

That has my take since X3R; I'm the shepherd and the Xenon are my flock. I both nurture and cull them, as appropriate.


There is both offense and defense. If defense is stronger, then your/faction's home is "safe". If offense is stronger, then walls will fall. However, one can be active or passive. The passive stays at home. One can be invincible, but never challenge anyone. The active does sail out. Either can be weak or strong. Weak raider is slaughtered. Strong against strong (or weak against weak) is slow(er) attrition. Active strong offense beats weak defense (XEN vs ZYA).

If XEN (or any other evil alien -- TER, I'm looking at you) is strong, but stays home, then we can do battle when we wish.
If the foes is strong and active, then we have to do battle. Some players prefer the former, others the latter.


Alas, there is a villain in that rock-paper-scissors: the economy. One can starve XEN without attacking any of their strong assets. Player (action) is not required for that (much).

[GCU Grey Area]

I also think it's important to start considering the combat viability of the other factions. We don't want to go starting fights with the Split, Terrans, or the Paranid because there's no particular benefit to doing so, right? We have to be friends with them to access their blueprints, and we don't want to be harassed everywhere we go. There's no incentive to do so.

Disagree about this.

I prefer to have at least 1 or 2 of the major factions as enemies. Typically I'll choose appropriate enemies based on the start I'm using, so for example when playing the Spear of the Patriarch start I had both Argon factions as -30 rep enemies (if I do that one again I will of course be adding Borons to the list). Greatly enhances my enjoyment of the game, which for me is incentive enough. Find them much more fun to fight. Unlike the Xenon they use missiles & my capital ships don't have an automatic range advantage against their capital ships & stations.

I don't tend to worry too much about blueprints. I don't build my own shipyards (nothing trivialises fleet combat more than being able to build an endless stream of free ships), so I don't need ship blueprints. If I need station blueprints from a hostile faction (e.g. Argon slave quarters & food modules in my SOTP Split game), the fact that I need to scan hostile stations in enemy territory just adds to the fun.

[jlehtone]

True, wanting to have all toys (blueprints) and something to shoot at is like wanting to have a cake and eat it too. Possible to some extent, but not endlessly, nor always entertaining.

[TroubledRabbit]

it is the case of 'wanting to have the cookie and eating it at the same time'. Either the game has to be open (possibly) for different gametypes and playstyles *and* somewhat randomized each time so it is not 'the galaxy of bore-doom' *or* easily (by slider or something) adjustable for one's liking and desires.

though I would point out that 'explore' element has got exactly '0' challenge besides fps-drop danger (or randomized encounter if you explore personally in the starter ship) if something 'explorable' which is either trivial (data vault) or just annoying (lootboxes) minigames with underwhelming rewards is within big bloody asteroid field.

[geldonyetich]

I also think it's important to start considering the combat viability of the other factions. We don't want to go starting fights with the Split, Terrans, or the Paranid because there's no particular benefit to doing so, right? We have to be friends with them to access their blueprints, and we don't want to be harassed everywhere we go. There's no incentive to do so.

Disagree about this.

I prefer to have at least 1 or 2 of the major factions as enemies. Typically I'll choose appropriate enemies based on the start I'm using, so for example when playing the Spear of the Patriarch start I had both Argon factions as -30 rep enemies (if I do that one again I will of course be adding Borons to the list). Greatly enhances my enjoyment of the game, which for me is incentive enough. Find them much more fun to fight. Unlike the Xenon they use missiles & my capital ships don't have an automatic range advantage against their capital ships & stations.

I don't tend to worry too much about blueprints. I don't build my own shipyards (nothing trivialises fleet combat more than being able to build an endless stream of free ships), so I don't need ship blueprints. If I need station blueprints from a hostile faction (e.g. Argon slave quarters & food modules in my SOTP Split game), the fact that I need to scan hostile stations in enemy territory just adds to the fun.

That's fair; I don't disagree. But I think I may have to split hairs in regards to what is meant by incentive.

Out-of-game, players could have many reasons and incentives to want to fight the other races. Maybe you will choose to fight the other factions because you enjoy it. Maybe another player will declare war on the Split because they hate their aesthetics. Either way, that is something that you brought with you from outside of it.

Personally, I don't have those reasons. I can see the potential enjoyment of fighting the other factions but I don't bother because it involves going out of my way to do. Besides which, if I succeed and eliminate them completely from the game, the gate network is a more boring place for their absence. Thus, that external incentive doesn't exist for me.

So, I propose we want more players to enjoy that experience, we should design the incentives to be in-game instead of personal.

Better yet, properly simulate the other factions having reasons to want to come fight us. Currently, the other factions do not particularly resent the player even if the player is dominating them economically, intimidating them militarily, or otherwise establishing themselves as any kind of threat whatsoever.

It hurts immersion for me to give players that much immersion-breaking freedom. Getting all the factions to all side from the player should require diplomacy or, failing that, conquest. Currently, all it requires is doing a few odd jobs for them or regular trade.

If we can get some better fights out of deepening the interfactional diplomatic situation, all the better. I would imagine that even the finest diplomatic efforts might produce some disgruntled splinter factions with a chip on their shoulder against the player.

[jlehtone]

If we can get some better fights out of deepening the interfactional diplomatic situation, all the better. I would imagine that even the finest diplomatic efforts might produce some disgruntled splinter factions with a chip on their shoulder against the player

I reckon, the X3FL has something like that.

[GCU Grey Area]

That's fair; I don't disagree. But I think I may have to split hairs in regards to what is meant by incentive.

Out-of-game, players could have many reasons and incentives to want to fight the other races. Maybe you will choose to fight the other factions because you enjoy it. Maybe another player will declare war on the Split because they hate their aesthetics. Either way, that is something that you brought with you from outside of it.

Personally, I don't have those reasons. I can see the potential enjoyment of fighting the other factions but I don't bother because it involves going out of my way to do. Besides which, if I succeed and eliminate them completely from the game, the gate network is a more boring place for their absence. Thus, that external incentive doesn't exist for me.

So, I propose we want more players to enjoy that experience, we should design the incentives to be in-game instead of personal.

In-game incentives for me are that it strengthens factions I have chosen as friends. This stimulates demand for the products my stations make & also increases the number of sectors which can offer me missions to do for those factions. For example, have mostly been helping the Borons in my current game: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4d6ofe2g ... fc59s&dl=0

They've essentially doubled the number of sectors they control by taking them from Rhak & Xenon. Each of those sectors now has 4-5 Boron stations (guess who provided most of the building materials) & they also have a lot more ships now, which has vastly increased the profitability of my Shipyard Supply Base in Great Reef. Have also been helping the Argons, since they are strong allies for the Borons. Was not by chance that Argons now own Tharka's Ravine XXIV (had to eliminate rather a lot of competing claims to the sector before it flipped blue). Main in-game incentive was to create an additional location from which I could obtain ARG v XEN war guild missions.

[Berhg]

I agree about wanting an adjustable difficulty setting for Xenon. I would LOVE to have back the Xenon that overran whole swathes of territory across multiple sections of the map at once.

[LandogarX4]

I agree about wanting an adjustable difficulty setting for Xenon. I would LOVE to have back the Xenon that overran whole swathes of territory across multiple sections of the map at once.

As has been suggested frequently over the years, a Xenon difficulty adjustment could be implemented within the game, as part of an end-game quest. Similarly to the Yaki quest where you can unleash Xenon on Terra. But instead, you would unleash extra forces on existing Xenon sectors, along with improved production efficiency and maybe buffs for their ships. Could be explained by a distant and more efficient branch reaching the known universe.

I had hoped that the end-game challenge would be something along those lines, but instead it is just an arcady tower-defense mini-game that is totally distinct from the simulated universe.

[jlehtone]

Main in-game incentive was to create an additional location from which I could obtain ARG v XEN war guild missions.

One could argue whether that is in-game or external. Is roleplaying a "good, loyal Boron" internal or external? Is knowing what maximizes Guild missions internal or external? Supporting "your side", because it generates business for you, is an in-game reason. Supporting all sides as "Lord of War", because it generates business for you, is more external, isn't it?


The player can help the Xenon to steamroll other factions without any "slider". Then show up in 11th Hour as "the hero, who saved the day". The good Palpatine.

But instead, you would unleash extra forces on existing Xenon sectors, along with improved production efficiency and maybe buffs for their ships.

Some Terraforming "rewards" is a change in amount of fleets that a faction can build; on "job quota". (One could beat them dry to prevent build of "full compliment".) Such change would be "within simulation".

[SirLosealot]

It is hard to please anyone with fixed parameters so how about allowing the player to adjust some parameters?

For example, the cost to build stations and ships for the Xenon (or even for other factions) can be adjusted. So if the base cost is 1x, reducing this to, say, 0.8x will help the Xenon since they require less resource to build/rebuild. Or maybe there can also be a parameter that dictates the maximum number of ships the Xenon are allowed to have. This way, the player can increase or decrease the difficulty, maybe even in the middle of a game too.

[gbjbaanb]

Why is the Fight aspect the only part that people complain about being easy? X4 is about 4 different parts, and frankly, fighting the xenon is only easy because the rest are easy too. If your wares were much less profitable, and your stations didn't spam out more product than anyone needs, then things would be much different.

X3 was better in this regard, and the xenon were just a few ships here and there causing trouble.

[SirLosealot]

Why is the Fight aspect the only part that people complain about being easy? X4 is about 4 different parts, and frankly, fighting the xenon is only easy because the rest are easy too. If your wares were much less profitable, and your stations didn't spam out more product than anyone needs, then things would be much different.

X3 was better in this regard, and the xenon were just a few ships here and there causing trouble.

I think it is because fight aspect is the goal of many players. Like, the logistics part is to serve the war. One would think the Xenon would have a massive advantage against other factions/player since their economy is extremely simple but somehow it often is not the case. For example, even though I played it slow and isolated my production only in Terran space for a long time but besides the ZYA, the Xenon don't seem to be able to threaten anybody else.

[flywlyx]

Why is the Fight aspect the only part that people complain about being easy? X4 is about 4 different parts, and frankly, fighting the xenon is only easy because the rest are easy too. If your wares were much less profitable, and your stations didn't spam out more product than anyone needs, then things would be much different.

A skilled player can single-handedly clear an entire Xenon sector with just one destroyer. Making it harder to build destroyers won't solve anything.

[SirLosealot]

A skilled player can single-handedly clear an entire Xenon sector with just one destroyer. Making it harder to build destroyers won't solve anything.

Yeah, taking the player into account is a whole different beast. Not only from a logistics standpoint but a skill stand point too. Like, the AI is far, far below the skill level of a player.

So I still think implementing a slider to increase/decrease the quantity over quality of the enemy could alleviate the issue of the game feeling too easy/hard.