Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Stars_InTheirEyes · Post by **Stars_InTheirEyes** » Fri, 14. Apr 17, 20:09

The first teaser trailer is here: https://youtu.be/zB4I68XVPzQ

Episode 8.

Looks good. That last line is pretty

inducing

e1team · Post by **e1team** » Fri, 14. Apr 17, 21:02

oh my gosh! oh my gosh! omgomgomg!!!1111

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Fri, 14. Apr 17, 21:15

All I want is "The Final Battle" between the true Sithlord Darth Vader vs Luke. That's it. I want Darth Vader back... It's the only way.

brucewarren · Post by **brucewarren** » Fri, 14. Apr 17, 21:51

I don't.

There are two problems that I can see with that idea.

The first is one of story telling.

I know that Yoda and Obiwan and Anakin all came back as Force ghosts but I always liked to think it was a special dispensation on account of being the good guys. They also take no further part in the action. They can advise but they can't get out there and start kicking Sith butt.

If you allow the bad guys to come back, and allow them to interact with the world of the living then everything becomes meaningless. What's the point of a life and death struggle if the bad guys are promptly back again the next day. Same goes for a heroic sacrifice. Not very heroic if the guy can get straight back up on his feet.

In the particular case of Darth Vader there's a more serious reason. I'm not going to bother with a spoiler tag because the film has to be almost as old as I am by now so if anyone doesn't know how Return of the Jedi ended it's just too bad.

Anyhoo at the end of the film Luke complains that he came to save Vader. The dying Vader says "you already have." It's quite plain that he's referring to his soul being saved. He's happy to die knowing that he's once again the hero he was before old man Palpatine got his devilish claws into him.

Make him a bad guy again and the whole point of the six films is lost. It's worse than making Han not fire first. It's that bad imo.

As to the trailer itself

Spoiler

Show

What idiot let JarJar fly one of those things

(1 min 15 second mark I think)

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Fri, 14. Apr 17, 22:38

brucewarren wrote:...The first is one of story telling.

Do not mention "Story Telling" and anything released after the first trilogy in the Star Wars trilogy...

(I'd suggest "anything after the first two", but I don't want to get too picky.)

...Make him a bad guy again and the whole point of the six films is lost. It's worse than making Han not fire first. It's that bad.

That's why I said "Sithlord." I'm no Star Wars lore-jocky. I just like a good story with lasers and spaceships. But, the idea of "The Force" being dichotomous is very well established. The concept of "all that was evil" in Darth being "brought back" or even becoming some sort of "mirror, darkly" version of Vader is possible without breaking previous storylines.

Vader's helmet was in the revival for a reason. Granted, much of that was for nostalgia and for the audience to "oooh" over, lending some form of gravitas to Kylo Ren, who was otherwise, and I think still, a pretty pitiful excuse for a character or villain.

BUT, adding that broken up helmet, which wasn't entirely destroyed (foreshadowing for the win?), leaves us plenty of room for some form of Darth Vader to re-emerge.

It "could" be done. Will it? Probably not. But, without Vader or Palpatine (supposedly), what villain or force will Luke struggle against?

What purpose does Luke serve in the new movie? Marketing purposes, to be sure, but in the story, will he just be yet again another re-write of a previously told Star Wars story - Luke's "Ben Kenobi" to Rey's "Luke?" If they are, yet again, going to recycle a previously told story, who will then kill/remove/resurrect Luke once he has tutored Rey? Snoke? Or... Rey?

brucewarren · Post by **brucewarren** » Fri, 14. Apr 17, 22:53

I think we already have clues as to what Luke will do. It won't be a rehash of Obiwan but something a little different.

My guess

Spoiler

Show

is that while he'll indeed mentor Ray a large part of his story arc will be concerned with guilt and trying to atone for his mistakes. He tried to create a new Jedi academy but screwed up Bigly. Trump level incompetence. He considers the rise of the First Order his own fault and it probably is too.

In the previous tale the Jedi Order failed due to arrogance and complacency. Secure in their own power they didn't notice that bad stuff until far too late. Yoda himself notes how blind the Jedi have become.

Whatever Luke's mistake was it'll be something different. Not arrogance but ignorance. With the council destroyed he's got no instruction manual.

Something like this was hinted at in the now abandoned Expanded Universe so there's probably material to draw upon.

philip_hughes · Post by **philip_hughes** » Fri, 14. Apr 17, 22:56

Kylor rens problem is poor self esteem. His teacher is always telling him how terrible he is. This whole movie could have been avoided if he had proper counselling.

brucewarren · Post by **brucewarren** » Fri, 14. Apr 17, 23:01

Nah, more likely it was a woman.

She done told him he ugly. That's why he wears a mask.

philip_hughes · Post by **philip_hughes** » Sat, 15. Apr 17, 01:48

Come to think of it, acting classes wouldn't have gone astray. ..

berth · Post by **berth** » Sat, 15. Apr 17, 03:07

Ah, Skellig Michael! Beautiful.

(I haven't actually been there but I have seen it on the northern horizon.)

I didn't really enjoy part 7 but I'll still watch this.

Golden_Gonads · Post by **Golden_Gonads** » Sat, 15. Apr 17, 15:04

For some reason I got the feeling the teaser was hinting that Luke turns all Dark and emo.

mrbadger · Post by **mrbadger** » Sat, 15. Apr 17, 15:29

Not watching this, or any other trailer, because I don't want any form of spoiler, however inadvertant or trivial it might be.

But why is Luke still in the series at all? I thought they were handing over to a new cast.

Harrison ford took the right approach. a few good lines and an epic death scene.

Usenko · Post by **Usenko** » Sat, 15. Apr 17, 15:46

Well, they made him the McGuffin of the last episode, so it'd be pretty dopey if he suddenly didn't play a major part in the next one.

brucewarren · Post by **brucewarren** » Sat, 15. Apr 17, 16:46

@mrbadger Rey needs a mentor I guess. How's she going to learn how to use the Force safely if there's no one left alive he's got the foggiest idea of what it's supposed to be? [1]

Luke's no Yoda, but's he gotta be better than no one at all, unless you want her to learn from Snoke. I don't see that going well.

In the original films the once common Jedi were almost forgotten. I'm guessing in the new films that's got worse. It's not so much that folk don't believe in the Force as they've never even heard of it in the first place. Even Rey, who's clearly got a lot of Jedi in her thinks it's just a series of children's tales to tuck them in at night with.

[1] Seems to me that use of the Force isn't something you can experiment with. At least it's something you shouldn't experiment with. Imagine the likes of Jar Jar attempting to be a Jedi by trial and error. If that doesn't give you the heebie jeebies replace him with someone with a lot of raw power but no clue as to what she's doing. Not sure I'd want to be in the same star system as her. Just saying.

Usenko · Post by **Usenko** » Sat, 15. Apr 17, 17:06

brucewarren wrote: [1] Seems to me that use of the Force isn't something you can experiment with. At least it's something you shouldn't experiment with. Imagine the likes of Jar Jar attempting to be a Jedi by trial and error. If that doesn't give you the heebie jeebies replace him with someone with a lot of raw power but no clue as to what she's doing. Not sure I'd want to be in the same star system as her. Just saying.

I'm guessing that in the Star Wars universe there would be an awful lot of cases in which someone who inadvertently upset a child with strong Force potential wound up with a sudden, inexplicable brain aneurysm . . .

Which is fine if it's a child molester or some such, but in my experience a child is just as likely to get upset because you told them they can't become a puppy.

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Sat, 15. Apr 17, 18:02

mrbadger wrote:...But why is Luke still in the series at all? I thought they were handing over to a new cast....

Marketing and story-draw, that's it.

How many want to see a story in the Star Wars universe that doesn't have anything at all to do with the original characters?

Well, they didn't really, really, know that, did they? So, they tried an experiment with "Rogue One." Yes, it had story elements from the original, but only a hint of the original characters. In essence, one could consider it a spin-off from the original storyline.

(I fell asleep, so missed quite a few bits of it... Had been traveling, was tired, just ate lunch, theatre was cool and dark... Was also IMAX and 3D... friggin 3D glasses. I HATE 3D MOVIES.)

Remember "Star Trek: Generations?" Well, that's why we're seeing the old cast totter out onto the stage for one last hurrah. Hopefully, we won't see Leia in her old slave costume doing a "fan dance" on the dunes of Tatooine... (Not "Generations", with Kirk and his "Captain of the Enterprise" blatant segue, but bad enough.)

brucewarren · Post by **brucewarren** » Sat, 15. Apr 17, 18:04

I guess I'm overthinking it.

Elsewhere on the web someone said that Force Powers would be an evolutionary dead end.

Maybe that's why Jedi aren't supposed to fall in love. it's nothing to do with that semi Buddhist balance of the mind stuff and everything to do with the dead bodies piling up in the nursery

Morkonan · Post by **Morkonan** » Sat, 15. Apr 17, 18:27

brucewarren wrote:I guess I'm overthinking it.

Elsewhere on the web someone said that Force Powers would be an evolutionary dead end....

Interesting.

The entire "Force" thing was permanently corrupted by friggin midichlorians... friggin stupid. The entire "Jedi" thing turning from a small, exclusive, "Holy Order" into a "Political Force" was friggin stupid.

The trope of "boy discovers he has magic powers and is tutored by a mentor" plot piece is as tired as they get, but can still be very fulfilling and powerful in a suitable story arc. (Like the "Hero's Journey" story of the first Star Wars movie, which was followed almost exactly.)

To me, it seemed that "The Force" was turned from being a magical, semi-religious, holy power into... a sexually transmitted disease. So, it's a STD, like herpes or, better yet, syphilis. Luke has spiritual syphilis, just like all the Jedi. Eventually, as the "disease" progresses, he will go mad...

I BET YOU THAT THIS IS THE NEXT STORY!! Eventually, if a Jedi becomes powerful enough (as the "disease" of The Force progresses) they will go mad and will have to be... put down.

Plot: Luke has a progressive STD and his brain will eventually become so infected that he becomes a danger to himself and to others.

In my opinion, this is the only logical continuance of any character-driven story involving a powerful Jedi, considering the horrible farce of friggin "midichlorians."

berth · Post by **berth** » Sun, 16. Apr 17, 00:51

Morkonan wrote:
brucewarren wrote:I guess I'm overthinking it.

Elsewhere on the web someone said that Force Powers would be an evolutionary dead end....
Interesting.

The entire "Force" thing was permanently corrupted by friggin midichlorians... friggin stupid. The entire "Jedi" thing turning from a small, exclusive, "Holy Order" into a "Political Force" was friggin stupid.

The trope of "boy discovers he has magic powers and is tutored by a mentor" plot piece is as tired as they get, but can still be very fulfilling and powerful in a suitable story arc. (Like the "Hero's Journey" story of the first Star Wars movie, which was followed almost exactly.)

To me, it seemed that "The Force" was turned from being a magical, semi-religious, holy power into... a sexually transmitted disease. So, it's a STD, like herpes or, better yet, syphilis. Luke has spiritual syphilis, just like all the Jedi. Eventually, as the "disease" progresses, he will go mad...

I BET YOU THAT THIS IS THE NEXT STORY!! Eventually, if a Jedi becomes powerful enough (as the "disease" of The Force progresses) they will go mad and will have to be... put down.

Plot: Luke has a progressive STD and his brain will eventually become so infected that he becomes a danger to himself and to others.

In my opinion, this is the only logical continuance of any character-driven story involving a powerful Jedi, considering the horrible farce of friggin "midichlorians."

Lol! Sounds like Star Wars: The South Park Years.

Story-wise, I think they're kinda stuck with the 1950s "white hat vs black hat" guff that George Lucas initially created. That's fine, it's escapism, no problem with that.

I want to like these newer movies but it's a struggle

philip_hughes · Post by **philip_hughes** » Sun, 16. Apr 17, 01:05

Saw rey with a red light saber. Hmmmmm.

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Star Wars: The Last Jedi

Star Wars: The Last Jedi