[MOD] [TC/AP] X3 Rebalance Mod (XRM) - Total conversion - v1.30d (02.12.13)

[NOValdemar]

Good to know what pack is intended. I fear that by removing gates the flaws in vanillas OSS programing will become even more apparent as you wont be able to jump IS to save your ships. Regardless it will be great to test out.

Do the OSS fixes on the forum work with XRM? Does anyone use them?

[Sn4kemaster]

RE: M6s - I'm actually have a think about rebalancing them all a bit at the moment. They are not quite in the gap between M3s and M7s and are too easily beaten by a wing of fighters.

So I'm considering increasing their laser energy and possibly an extra shield across the board.

Also, I'm considering a speed increase across the board for all fighters and corvettes.

I think the problem with all M6 and M6+ vs fighters is not speed or shield's, lets face it on paper terms they are the match vs several M3's!

The problem is simply a combination of 2 things.....

1. Relative very poor agility against fighters, for example an average M3 agilty is say around 45.0, an average M7's is about 2.1 but the average M6+ comes in at just 6.0...... surly if they are supposed to be the middle ground between an M3 and a M7 they they should be in the middle at around 15 - 20?

2. Weapons, an M6's anti-corvette weapons simply dont work against fighter's, they are mounted on its main guns which due to their (above) relative poor agilty means that they are simply not very effective against fighters and are never fired, and the weapons that an M6/M6+ carries to actually combat M3's are exactly the same weapons that the M3 carries....which means they are going to come off worse as an average M6 turret carries 2-4 guns and a average M3 carries 8 so they are outgunned in real terms by 50%.

IMO the only way to make them effective vs fighters is either give them a huge hike in agility and ...... the ability to maybe to fit flak weapons, thier limited weapon energy should balance them out.


And the only trouble with increasing speeds of fighters and M6's etc is that it will have a another knock on effect, of having to increase fighter weapon speeds to compensate all over again.....and it just starts into another viscous circle!


And as for the Drake needing a boost.......sorry are you being serious? it's already a very very powerful ship, so what if the AI cant use it very well!! AI really cant use lots of fast light ships very well!! in the hands of the player its already OP, if you do want it with more turrets and added agilty then you will have to lose speed or it would just be extremely overpowered!....in fact it just becomes another SPRINGBLOSSOM!

[paulwheeler]

Good to know what pack is intended. I fear that by removing gates the flaws in vanillas OSS programing will become even more apparent as you wont be able to jump IS to save your ships. Regardless it will be great to test out.

Do the OSS fixes on the forum work with XRM? Does anyone use them?

The pack makes you consider the location of your property more. Do you opt to stay near a beacon for accessibility, or go for a more remote location where you might have to cross a couple of sectors, but better selling opportunities.

One good thing I noted tonight while testing - Pirate Guild is utilising the beacons. I jumped into the BHS beacon to get to Treasure Chest, only to be followed in by a mob boss.

[InFlamesForEver]

I feel that all M6's need is some anti-fighter weaponry that is not fighter weaponry. Simply a laser with a very fast speed, around that of a FLAK weapon but of the power of a fighter's main guns. This would make them perfect for their intended roll.
I also feel that if speed is increased then a little more agility wouldn't go amiss as then they may not crash as often.

On the Drake I suggest upping the agility and instead of increasing its speed as much as other only increase it by say 20ms.

[NOValdemar]

I feel that all M6's need is some anti-fighter weaponry that is not fighter weaponry. Simply a laser with a very fast speed, around that of a FLAK weapon but of the power of a fighter's main guns. This would make them perfect for their intended roll.
I also feel that if speed is increased then a little more agility wouldn't go amiss as then they may not crash as often.

You know this is a very interesting idea. Many times its a shame how bad fighter weapons are in turrets, especially when they are trying to hit fighters.

[InFlamesForEver]

I feel that all M6's need is some anti-fighter weaponry that is not fighter weaponry. Simply a laser with a very fast speed, around that of a FLAK weapon but of the power of a fighter's main guns. This would make them perfect for their intended roll.
I also feel that if speed is increased then a little more agility wouldn't go amiss as then they may not crash as often.

You know this is a very interesting idea. Many times its a shame how bad fighter weapons are in turrets, especially when they are trying to hit fighters.

Thanks, I have always thought it strange that there have never been any fighter power fast weapons.
I think they would solve the issue of M6's not actually being able to hit fighters smaller than an M3+ in the hands of the AI.

[Firewrath]

1. Relative very poor agility against fighters, for example an average M3 agilty is say around 45.0, an average M7's is about 2.1 but the average M6+ comes in at just 6.0...... surly if they are supposed to be the middle ground between an M3 and a M7 they they should be in the middle at around 15 - 20?

...if you do want it with more turrets and added agilty... ...it would just be extremely overpowered!

uhh, hrm, Yeeeah.


Anyways.
I was saying to give it 10 'agility' or steering. Right now its sitting at 6, the Dragon has 17.7 or 17.8 and the Dragon Sentinel has 18, i dont think 4 points would make it 'over powered'. Also i suggested a couple post ago that removing the turrets might be a fix, untill i tested it and found out that even without weapons in the turrets it still would only circle its target or crashed into them. So adding 1 bottom turret with 2 laser slots so itll still shoot at its target At All, doesnt seem 'over powered' either.

so what if the AI cant use it very well!! AI really cant use lots of fast light ships very well!! in the hands of the player its already OP,

Basically its because theres only One player ship and hundreds of AI ships. So you cant balance things completely on how well a player uses a ship. Otherwise you pretty much have a wasted ship in the game. The AI will spawn with the ship, im sure its listed in the Job files, so it should be able to be Used by the AI.

And as for the Drake needing a boost.......sorry are you being serious?

...
Yes.
Otherwise I wouldnt have made a few post about it. I'm not saying it needs some Huge power boost, it just needs to be able to do more then circle whatever ship its trying to attack.



Edit: Just thinking here, im not sure how this works, but are there any weapon slots left open for new weapons to be added?
a class of M6 weapons or 'Heavy Fighter' weapons might be a bad idea, and by 'Heavy Fighter' i mean weapons that are just stronger versions of what a fighter gets, but too big to be mounted on a fighter and cost too much energy for fighters to fire.

[paulwheeler]

Adding more weapons would be extremely difficult at this stage. Its something I really do not wish to do.

Its vital to keep some kind of personality to M6s. They must not become just big fighters.

Their main issue is that due to their size they can't dodge bullets so easily as a fighter. Making them more manoeuvrable is not the answer as we're just turning them into fighters.

So more shielding is definitely the way forward. The most lightly shielded M7s are the Wolf and Carrack with 2x1GJ shields. The most heavily shielded M6 has 6x200MJ. So thats 2000MJ vs 1200MJ. So there is some room to add at least one more shield slot to every M6.

The only issue with adding an extra shield slot is that it requires you to clone your M6s before the new slot will work.

The other issue is that when firing medium weapons like the CIG they run out of energy far too quick. So again, a further increase in their laser energy or a reduction in medium weapon energy usage would solve this one.

I'm not going to give M6s flak - that would be overpowering them.

Adding more turrets to all M6s is a huge amount of work and again is something I would rather avoid.

Every ship needs vulnerabilities so I'm happy that M6s are threatened by groups of fighters. But I'd like M6s to last a bit longer against M7s than they currently do.

Remember M6s have large cargo bays - much bigger than vanilla, so can carry large numbers of missiles giving them an edge against fighters.

[yarrick5]

Most m6s can dock an M3 plus, or more than 1. That should Be Talent into account. Also, try using kerises or Fighter drones people. Easy to eject all, and they work. IS or OOS. . Ive got a Ton of m6s, im Talking like 80, and they exterminate fighters. Sure, if One gets Jumped alone it may have problems, but the drones are a Life saver. But they work better in groups, Even a pair is far more effective than 2 individual craft. And Even more effective in conjunction with other classes. Combined Arms, People. A Tank, by itself, on the modern battlefield is a pretty easy Target for a couple Infantrymen. Thats y uve got an infantry screen. And Air Cover. And arty Support. See what im getting at?
Also, i think the maneuverability shouldnt Be increased, the M6 Class has a Crew, the ships r 100+ m long. Makes Rapid Turns unrealistisch, Even with scifi inertial dampening or whatever Fast Makes sense, but turning wouldnt. Mass and sll that...
I don't think the ships should Be tweaked to make them better all around, or with heavier weapons. After all they have a massive Power supply to Run those weapons, and more of them.
Bottom turret might b good tho, Thats Kind of a glaring Design flaw, tho those happen.

@ NOValdemar i use oos fix 1, Script, Not Mod, the mod broke the Navigation system, primarily the follow Command, for my Game, including npc patrols, instead of smoothly folliwing, ships would stop and go follow, then eventually just stop. There were other issues Too. Not sure, but i think the Problem lies within that Mod, tho it may just Not work with xrm. Anyway, Works very well, but strangely, it only Works really well if u don't Watch the Battle thru the sector Map while oos. Give Orders through the property menu in Close battles. But Even if watching thru Said Map, its MUCH better than vanilla oos. Def. Use it. Again, only the Script tho!

And As to Fighters, Speed, usefulness, and survivability, People, theyre a specialty Unit. U don't deploy them against heavily defended target. If theres a Cap Ship Battle going on, they should Be kept out or in the fringes, unless u stand to lose a whole System of Ur factories to an Invasion. U don't deploy Aircraft somewhere where the AA will shred them. They have the Speed to Hunt down fast targets, and Thats it. Even twice As tough, ud still lose a number against Even a single frigate or several properly handled well. And id say theyre Too expensive to throw away like that. This isnt Star Wars

[paulwheeler]

M6s can only dock a single M5.

Please let me know if there are any that can dock M3s as this is incorrect (except for the Hyperion).

[yarrick5]

Well the pirate katana seems tone able to Dock 4 of anything. Ill check, but i was pretty sure i saw m3s and 4s Coming out of m6s regularly

Edit: standard katanas and shamshirs can Dock up to M3+, Paul. If u want i can systematically Test out other m6s, id have to buy or cheat them First tho, Ive only got USC ships.

[paulwheeler]

Hmm... that's Cadius slipping those M3 docks in there.

All non-Cadius modified M6s will only dock M5s.

I'll have to go through the Xtra ships and change the docks.

[yarrick5]

U going to Cut Down the dock slots on pirate katanas?

also, i think that Ive Seen pirate katanas launch 2 m4s and 2 m5s, lose them, and Pop out more.. Can u check that?

[paulwheeler]

There is definitely only one docking slot on the pirate Katana.



More news - I've finally got round to getting GMax and Dbox working. This is helping me get Expnobody's ships sorted, but has the added bonus of enabling me to finally address those annoying "models not being centred" issues.

I've already centred the Odysseus in its scene, so it no longer gets a free ride for the first half of a battle.

I've also sorted the pivot point error on the Titan Mk1 which was causing the scene to be too big making the zoom levels too far out. You can now zoom in nice and close in the external view. There are pivot issues on some of the other Mk1s which I'll sort too.

If anyone else spots any ships which need centring in their scenes (you'll know because incoming fire will often aim away from the centre of the ship), please let me know.

[yarrick5]

Don't Know what to Tell u Paul but Ive got a pirate katana with 2 sabres and 2 Rapiers docked at ut in Front of me right now. Info says 1 dock, Same in Encyclopedia, but there it is. I Took a pic in the phone, can email that 2 u if u wish.

[paulwheeler]

Don't Know what to Tell u Paul but Ive got a pirate katana with 2 sabres and 2 Rapiers docked at ut in Front of me right now. Info says 1 dock, Same in Encyclopedia, but there it is. I Took a pic in the phone, can email that 2 u if u wish.

Yes please email it.

[yarrick5]

U should have it

[paulwheeler]

Got it. Very strange... I could have sworn theres only one external dock in the scene file. Well ill get to the bottom of it. It'll just have one m5 dock after the next update.

[yarrick5]

Seems like Thats Be An interesting Way to have more variety in ships, and/ or rationalize something like, Say, nö Bottom turret...

[Alan Phipps]

At least the Yaki Appallox M6 (a Hyperion variant) from the Yaki Ronin start sounds as though you meant it to be able to dock a couple of M3. Useful for the bailed ship recovery in early game while you are still short of getting a TM or other carrier.