I didn't realize Universal Traders don't buy jump drives on their own anymore.. I couldn't understand why they weren't having them delivered on their own at the right level.
Guess it's the changes to jump drives in XRM. Right?
Man someone tell me if that's how it works. If some other script is interfering I'm going to fix it. If its XRMs default way then I'm going to be :<
[MOD] [TC/AP] X3 Rebalance Mod (XRM) - Total conversion - v1.30d (02.12.13)
Moderators: Moderators for English X Forum, Scripting / Modding Moderators
-
deca.death
- Posts: 2939
- Joined: Mon, 28. Feb 11, 19:50
.
One war story, Xenon G
Yesterday I was cleaning Nopileos of xenon ships, testing few of my newest war vessels. Then I docked to station, doing some economical trivial tasks, like CAG setups and I was almost blown away by G attacking station :) I jumped out my H.Hydra and G was in perfect attack position, just 10km from south gates, so I called cavalry in, to punish insolent machine. Ocelot almost got to it, it survived 3, almost 4 shadow volleys. G had few P's and PXes around, nothing scary but not good when you are on 0% shield. My anti missile defenses proved inadequate. Mossies launched too late and too rarely (should I try to increase their range...). ISRs are precise but shoot to rarely. They would take down just few incoming shadows. PALCS were much better but 40-50% of shadows down won't make you survive forever.
Then I've tried with Argon command ship, M2+, armed with 36 plasma beam canons. Damn thing went poof in first volley or so. Ocelot at least evaded half of missiles being thin and they had to turn /were attacked by PALCs. But this argon behemoth just took all punishment, and CFAs /mossies proved almost useless. I said this many times and I will say it again M2+ look nicely, they can probably be nice gate blockade or OOS defensive ships, but as combat vessels are next to useless. Big target, slow target, dead target. With Taipan as possible exception.
Then I took Agamemnom. IT good pwned very fast. Volley or too, and it went poof. I've noticed before that quarduple AA batteries on wings killing xenon fighters quite slowly. For AA duties take ship with as much as smallest turrets as possible. Snotra has only double turrets but it's very effective AA ship. Aggy looks even better on paper, but not in real usage. And I doubt it's because of weapon type, stats are similar enough.
So three of my finest combat vessels vs single G, all failed miserably. This was more of a test, I could gate in more ships and divide damage or be more creative but it doesn't look good, when you put it like this. It doesn't matter in what ship you are, if you trying to get near G, and he peppers you, you will fail. You can shrug off damage from M8 to extent, but not volley after volley of shadows.
Mossies launch far too late, 3-4 of them go before shadows impact. ISR has ONE chance to fire on incoming missiles. And his range is not so bad. We will check stats in a minute. Beam weapons are better. Even capital class beam weaponry will take down part of missiles in long range but they have too low ROF. One hit is all they get. This it how it looks:
[ external image ]
Ultimately too many of missiles survive. Small vessels are in much better position. Shadows don't steer to well so you can evade them for quite long. But killing angry and too well shielded G in M6 is far from easy, if even possible. Even U.Object has problems, and he's extremely fast/well shielded.
Let's see:
Shadow: 610 m/s. 375k damage. That's 375Mj shield strip. G launches iirc 20 pcs /each 20 sec. if only half hit, they'll take away 4GJ of shielding, in best scenario (best for ship that is). That explains why big ships like Atlas can be taken down in a single volley.
Destroyers can fly 60-90 m/s with strafe. Meaning that in 10km range they have to defend from ...whooping 22 volleys with theoretical damage of 40-80Gj. I'm unsure how many of those things G actually carries but I believe you get the picture ;)
Now ISR has range of 2,9km. Shadows traverse that distance in 4,75 sec. It should attack them 3,5 times. Reduce number a little because turrets need time from acquiring target to turning to face it, to keep tracking it and to calculate when to shoot ... they should be attacked 2-3 times, they maybe did.
Mossie has range of 15km, didn't somebody recently claimed that they actually attack on far lesser range then that? I don't believe they attack sooner then ... I'll estimate it to 5km. Meaning they launch ...20 pcs (4/sec)? I believe it's even less then that. Maybe 5-10 mossies launches. I'm not sure though, this requires further field testing....
One war story, Xenon G
Yesterday I was cleaning Nopileos of xenon ships, testing few of my newest war vessels. Then I docked to station, doing some economical trivial tasks, like CAG setups and I was almost blown away by G attacking station :) I jumped out my H.Hydra and G was in perfect attack position, just 10km from south gates, so I called cavalry in, to punish insolent machine. Ocelot almost got to it, it survived 3, almost 4 shadow volleys. G had few P's and PXes around, nothing scary but not good when you are on 0% shield. My anti missile defenses proved inadequate. Mossies launched too late and too rarely (should I try to increase their range...). ISRs are precise but shoot to rarely. They would take down just few incoming shadows. PALCS were much better but 40-50% of shadows down won't make you survive forever.
Then I've tried with Argon command ship, M2+, armed with 36 plasma beam canons. Damn thing went poof in first volley or so. Ocelot at least evaded half of missiles being thin and they had to turn /were attacked by PALCs. But this argon behemoth just took all punishment, and CFAs /mossies proved almost useless. I said this many times and I will say it again M2+ look nicely, they can probably be nice gate blockade or OOS defensive ships, but as combat vessels are next to useless. Big target, slow target, dead target. With Taipan as possible exception.
Then I took Agamemnom. IT good pwned very fast. Volley or too, and it went poof. I've noticed before that quarduple AA batteries on wings killing xenon fighters quite slowly. For AA duties take ship with as much as smallest turrets as possible. Snotra has only double turrets but it's very effective AA ship. Aggy looks even better on paper, but not in real usage. And I doubt it's because of weapon type, stats are similar enough.
So three of my finest combat vessels vs single G, all failed miserably. This was more of a test, I could gate in more ships and divide damage or be more creative but it doesn't look good, when you put it like this. It doesn't matter in what ship you are, if you trying to get near G, and he peppers you, you will fail. You can shrug off damage from M8 to extent, but not volley after volley of shadows.
Hmm, yes. I suspect few of centaur sentinels loaded with PRGs on smart defense or MDmk2 would do wonders. Many gun points, fast firing weapon, small ship size... sounds promising.Nemesis_87 wrote:the bigger ships r effective against most things, but due to there size they are very weak against missiles, thats why i tend to have m6's with smart turrets protecting them until they run out of missiles, then send in the M2 to smash everything in sight
Partially but that's far from whole story. This is how I saw it: Incoming missiles coming in too large numbers, maybe half of them gets attacked by missile defenses, on better suited vessels. Ship gets two capital turrets and one AA turret maybe on incoming threat. You usually approach dead ahead or sideways. Actually running away would be much better :)nap_rz wrote: maybe the reason why threatening missiles not being shot down is the same with that, because of blank spots... :?
Mossies launch far too late, 3-4 of them go before shadows impact. ISR has ONE chance to fire on incoming missiles. And his range is not so bad. We will check stats in a minute. Beam weapons are better. Even capital class beam weaponry will take down part of missiles in long range but they have too low ROF. One hit is all they get. This it how it looks:
[ external image ]
Ultimately too many of missiles survive. Small vessels are in much better position. Shadows don't steer to well so you can evade them for quite long. But killing angry and too well shielded G in M6 is far from easy, if even possible. Even U.Object has problems, and he's extremely fast/well shielded.
Let's see:
Shadow: 610 m/s. 375k damage. That's 375Mj shield strip. G launches iirc 20 pcs /each 20 sec. if only half hit, they'll take away 4GJ of shielding, in best scenario (best for ship that is). That explains why big ships like Atlas can be taken down in a single volley.
Destroyers can fly 60-90 m/s with strafe. Meaning that in 10km range they have to defend from ...whooping 22 volleys with theoretical damage of 40-80Gj. I'm unsure how many of those things G actually carries but I believe you get the picture ;)
Now ISR has range of 2,9km. Shadows traverse that distance in 4,75 sec. It should attack them 3,5 times. Reduce number a little because turrets need time from acquiring target to turning to face it, to keep tracking it and to calculate when to shoot ... they should be attacked 2-3 times, they maybe did.
Mossie has range of 15km, didn't somebody recently claimed that they actually attack on far lesser range then that? I don't believe they attack sooner then ... I'll estimate it to 5km. Meaning they launch ...20 pcs (4/sec)? I believe it's even less then that. Maybe 5-10 mossies launches. I'm not sure though, this requires further field testing....
Last edited by deca.death on Sat, 25. Feb 12, 23:05, edited 2 times in total.
-
Teladidrone
- Posts: 644
- Joined: Tue, 24. Aug 04, 11:41
Include this rebalance for Yaki. They never get out of their sectors, too. Or they dont leave (live! lol) long enough to tell the tale...paulwheeler wrote:Improved pirate behaviour is just a slight change to the job script they are currently running. Rather than just saunter out of pirate sectors and start attacking, they will now actually have somewhere to be. They will leave pirate sectors for another sector, usually of the race from which their "clan" comes before they start their pirate patrol. This means they should spread out a bit more rather than just hunt in the sectors adjacent to pirate sectors like they currently do.
It will cause no issues with any other scripts.
At least not any of their Capital ships as far as I can see; sometimes I do see a poor little Chocharo with some assassin fighters "outside" though. But this is as fancy as it gets.
So I havn't been around for a while, and just in case anyone wants to know:
partially dislocated wrist+pinched nerve != fun time using a computer.
and other reasons, sooo maybe I'm just like out of my mind here because of all that, but:
Could missiles possibly replace lasers? O_o
Whats missile limitations in the game?
I know there are groups but how many is the game limited to?
(I can't recall ever hearing about a limit before, but I'm sure there is. -_-)
Is there a limit to the number of missiles in a group?
Think of this:
A missile that acts like a laser in terms of speed/hit box/etc could make for some specialized 'guns' on ships by using missile turrets.
(Yeah, the game treating them like missiles for anti-missile targeting would be a problem, but maybe there is a way around that...)
and I know missile turrets use all missile groups a ship has access to, so the ship would have to be denied normal missiles.
Anyways. Typing one-handed also isn't fun, so I'm off.
Just had to throw my crazy idea out somewhere. >.>
partially dislocated wrist+pinched nerve != fun time using a computer.
and other reasons, sooo maybe I'm just like out of my mind here because of all that, but:
Thats a Really good question to me. Just ...not as intended.Erenar wrote:If a missile barrage can do the same job of a laser barrage but in 1/100th of the time... why use lasers?
Could missiles possibly replace lasers? O_o
Whats missile limitations in the game?
I know there are groups but how many is the game limited to?
(I can't recall ever hearing about a limit before, but I'm sure there is. -_-)
Is there a limit to the number of missiles in a group?
Think of this:
A missile that acts like a laser in terms of speed/hit box/etc could make for some specialized 'guns' on ships by using missile turrets.
(Yeah, the game treating them like missiles for anti-missile targeting would be a problem, but maybe there is a way around that...)
and I know missile turrets use all missile groups a ship has access to, so the ship would have to be denied normal missiles.
Anyways. Typing one-handed also isn't fun, so I'm off.
Just had to throw my crazy idea out somewhere. >.>
The problem with the Yaki is that the main way to get out of their space leads right into a Paranid core sector (Empire's Edge). If they start wandering most of them are going to get shot down then and there.
I notice a similar situation with pirates in the Gaian Star Area being stopped by the Teladi fleet at Merchant Haven (OWPs and military base) and Grand Exchange (another OWP and a Cormorant with escorts). Though, being between the pirates and the Xenon makes those sectors a very fun place to hang around.
I notice a similar situation with pirates in the Gaian Star Area being stopped by the Teladi fleet at Merchant Haven (OWPs and military base) and Grand Exchange (another OWP and a Cormorant with escorts). Though, being between the pirates and the Xenon makes those sectors a very fun place to hang around.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step in figuring out how to make it worse.
Surely beacons would be a scout class ware size? At most a fighter I would have thought. In the Eve world you would use cov-ops intys which would equate to an M5 as they can zip in and out of hot sectors deploying the cyno field (equivalent to beacon) so titans etc could jump in.... seems pretty logical to me.
Okay OTAS HQ sells jump beacons and my game freezes at an exact point about 2 minutes from my save now..
I should start disabling scripts until I get it narrowed down shouldn't I.
Weird. Something XRM ate disagreed with it and it got a bad case of freezes. Disabling the core AL thing resolved the hang and everything is on its merry way now.
I should start disabling scripts until I get it narrowed down shouldn't I.
Weird. Something XRM ate disagreed with it and it got a bad case of freezes. Disabling the core AL thing resolved the hang and everything is on its merry way now.
Last edited by Probe1 on Tue, 31. Jan 12, 16:06, edited 2 times in total.
-
Teladidrone
- Posts: 644
- Joined: Tue, 24. Aug 04, 11:41
They dont even get this far because more often then not there are Paranid destroyers roaming around in Savage Spur.KloHunt3r wrote:The problem with the Yaki is that the main way to get out of their space leads right into a Paranid core sector (Empire's Edge). If they start wandering most of them are going to get shot down then and there.
In XRM Yaki have a "backway" out now. Maybe their scripts should be adjusted to go this route.
However they would have to go through Grand Exchange, too, where the Teladi are armed to the teeth awaiting Xenon... :/
//Edit:
And Yaki have another core sector down south, always full of big ships that never come out to play, too.
try switch to turret view, then keep holding fire key with beam, the beam wont stop firing..deca.death wrote:Hmm, yes. I suspect few of centaur sentinels loaded with PRGs on smart defense or MDmk2 would do wonders. Many gun points, fast firing weapon, small ship size... sounds promising.Nemesis_87 wrote:the bigger ships r effective against most things, but due to there size they are very weak against missiles, thats why i tend to have m6's with smart turrets protecting them until they run out of missiles, then send in the M2 to smash everything in sight
Partially but that's far from whole story. This is how I saw it: Incoming missiles coming in too large numbers, maybe half of them gets attacked by missile defenses, on better suited vessels. Ship gets two capital turrets and one AA turret maybe on incoming threat. You usually approach dead ahead or sideways. Actually running away would be much betternap_rz wrote: maybe the reason why threatening missiles not being shot down is the same with that, because of blank spots...
Mossies launch far too late, 3-4 of them go before shadows impact. ISR has ONE chance to fire on incoming missiles. And his range is not so bad. We will check stats in a minute. Beam weapons are better. Even capital class beam weaponry will take down part of missiles in long range but they have too low ROF. One hit is all they get. This it how it looks:
[ external image ]
Ultimately too many of missiles survive. Small vessels are in much better position. Shadows don't steer to well so you can evade them for quite long. But killing angry and too well shielded G in M6 is far from easy, if even possible. Even U.Object has problems, and he's extremely fast/well shielded.
Let's see:
Shadow: 610 m/s. 375k damage. That's 375Mj shield strip. G launches iirc 20 pcs /each 20 sec. if only half hit, they'll take away 4GJ of shielding, in best scenario (best for ship that is). That explains why big ships like Atlas can be taken down in a single volley.
Destroyers can fly 60-90 m/s with strafe. Meaning that in 10km range they have to defend from ...whooping 22 volleys with theoretical damage of 40-80Gj. I'm unsure how many of those things G actually carries but I believe you get the picture
Now ISR has range of 2,9km. Shadows traverse that distance in 4,75 sec. It should attack them 3,5 times. Reduce number a little because turrets need time from acquiring target to turning to face it, to keep tracking it and to calculate when to shoot ... they should be attacked 2-3 times, they maybe did.
Mossie has range of 15km, didn't somebody recently claimed that they actually attack on far lesser range then that? I don't believe they attack sooner then ... I'll estimate it to 5km. Meaning they launch ...20 pcs (4/sec)? I believe it's even less then that. Maybe 5-10 mossies launches. I'm not sure though, this requires further field testing....
summer time..
-
paulwheeler
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 13:33
The Yaki already have this behaviour in AP.Teladidrone wrote:Include this rebalance for Yaki. They never get out of their sectors, too. Or they dont leave (live! lol) long enough to tell the tale...paulwheeler wrote:Improved pirate behaviour is just a slight change to the job script they are currently running. Rather than just saunter out of pirate sectors and start attacking, they will now actually have somewhere to be. They will leave pirate sectors for another sector, usually of the race from which their "clan" comes before they start their pirate patrol. This means they should spread out a bit more rather than just hunt in the sectors adjacent to pirate sectors like they currently do.
It will cause no issues with any other scripts.
At least not any of their Capital ships as far as I can see; sometimes I do see a poor little Chocharo with some assassin fighters "outside" though. But this is as fancy as it gets.
The two main battle groups (an M1, M2, a few M7s etc.) and their assassin patrols both leave their two sector clusters. They usually get a couple of sectors before meeting significant resistance - except when coming out of Savage Spur into Empire's Edge as the Paranid always eat them for breakfast there!
Both sector clusters have two escape routes. There is the route into Paranid space via Empires Edge, Teladi space via Privateer Gate, Boron Space via Quiet Tides and Paranid space again via Emperor's Pride.
-
paulwheeler
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 13:33
![[ external image ]](http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k510/decadeath/X3TC/uop_g.jpg){kind=link}
![[ external image ]](http://www.strikingsoftware.com/xrmsig.jpg){kind=link}
-
paulwheeler
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 13:33
I assume they work in the same way as satelites/nav beacons etc.Sorkvild wrote:These jump beacons will be single or multi use ? If you drop it's pemanent or you can pick up your beacon at any time ? What about it's ware size Xl or XXL ?
I don't know, I've not actually tried to use them yet - but they are a vanilla addition from AP. I've not added them.
They are already in the game, just not for sale yet. So try cheating yourself some in and let me know what happens.
-
paulwheeler
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 13:33
If you are playing AP and never see the battle group leave their sectors, then you have not copied all the scripts from Part 2 correctly.Teladidrone wrote:
//Edit:
And Yaki have another core sector down south, always full of big ships that never come out to play, too.
You'll need to recopy the scripts and then cheat destroy the battle group lead ship so they respawn and reinitialise their job scripts.
In TC they are a bit reluctant to leave their sectors.
-
Teladidrone
- Posts: 644
- Joined: Tue, 24. Aug 04, 11:41
You sure this is working? How frequently are they supposed to go on a hunt?paulwheeler wrote:The Yaki already have this behaviour in AP.Teladidrone wrote:Include this rebalance for Yaki. They never get out of their sectors, too. Or they dont leave (live! lol) long enough to tell the tale...paulwheeler wrote:Improved pirate behaviour is just a slight change to the job script they are currently running. Rather than just saunter out of pirate sectors and start attacking, they will now actually have somewhere to be. They will leave pirate sectors for another sector, usually of the race from which their "clan" comes before they start their pirate patrol. This means they should spread out a bit more rather than just hunt in the sectors adjacent to pirate sectors like they currently do.
It will cause no issues with any other scripts.
At least not any of their Capital ships as far as I can see; sometimes I do see a poor little Chocharo with some assassin fighters "outside" though. But this is as fancy as it gets.
The two main battle groups (an M1, M2, a few M7s etc.) and their assassin patrols both leave their two sector clusters. They usually get a couple of sectors before meeting significant resistance - except when coming out of Savage Spur into Empire's Edge as the Paranid always eat them for breakfast there!
Both sector clusters have two escape routes. There is the route into Paranid space via Empires Edge, Teladi space via Privateer Gate, Boron Space via Quiet Tides and Paranid space again via Emperor's Pride.
I have satellite and a single M7 patrolling the south gate area of Zeta Rho for a couple of days now for testing purposes with Yaki set to foe. He never gets to fight or attacked down there...
//lol, Edit again I should really stop doing that:
Did not see your latest answer before posting, will try to do that.
Battle groups are just groups of the generically-named capital ships, right?paulwheeler wrote:If you are playing AP and never see the battle group leave their sectors, then you have not copied all the scripts from Part 2 correctly.
I've seen named pirate capital ships in Gaian Star and Talonfire, but they seem to be staying put and watching over their sectors. I assume this is their intended behavior.
There were one or two generic pirate capitals wandering around the pirate sectors in that area, but I've never seen them move into race space. Though, given the density of military forces over there it's definitely possible that they have and were destroyed before I could witness it. Also, thanks to some less than stellar race relations I'm still sequestered in the eastern edge of the universe, so I don't really have a good view on the pirate population as a whole.
I have seen streams of pirate fighter groups mulling around all over, and quite a few Yaki (Chokaro + Raijins) and Pirate (Caravel + Blastclaw Protoype) assassin squadrons have popped up in places I wouldn't expect.
How exactly does the script get pirates to start a raid? Does it give them a specific target? I'd like to check and it would be easy if I could just look at a capital ship's destination in its information menu.
On another note, it seems like OWPs have become much, much better as defensive emplacements in AP. Between the missiles and the range bonus they get OOS, I've never seen a pirate group get past the military outpost in Merchant's Haven.
Last edited by A5PECT on Tue, 31. Jan 12, 16:55, edited 4 times in total.
Admitting you have a problem is the first step in figuring out how to make it worse.
-
paulwheeler
- Posts: 8132
- Joined: Tue, 19. Apr 05, 13:33
There are two Yaki Battle groups.KloHunt3r wrote:Battle groups are just groups of the generically-named capital ships, right?paulwheeler wrote:If you are playing AP and never see the battle group leave their sectors, then you have not copied all the scripts from Part 2 correctly.
I've seen named pirate capital ships in Gaian Star and Talonfire, but they seem to be staying put and watching over their sectors. I assume this is their intended behavior.
There were one or two generic pirate capitals wandering around the pirate sectors in that area, but I've never seen them move into race space. Though, given the density of military forces over there it's definitely possible that they have and were destroyed before I could witness it. Also, thanks to some less than stellar race relations I'm still sequestered in the eastern edge of the universe, so I don't really have a good view on the pirate population as a whole.
I have seen streams of pirate fighter groups mulling around all over, and quite a few Yaki (Chokaro + Raijins) and Pirate (Caravel + Blastclaw Protoype) assassin squadrons have popped up in places I wouldn't expect.
How exactly does the script get pirates to start a raid? Does it give them a specific target? I'd like to check and it would be easy if I could just look at a capital ship's destination in its information menu.
They are named "Yaki Battle Group -shipname-" with lots of escorts
One spawns in Ocracoke's Storm and the other in Redemption.
They then move into the adjacent non-Yaki sectors (in TC it was a bit hit and miss, but in AP they aggressively do this - just like the Xenon do).
They have been there since the beginning of the XRM so if you're not seeing them, something is wrong with your installation - likely a jobs conflict.